So in reading some of the comments in my ‘Past Excusing Present‘ rant post from Sunday, I came across a valid…what I’ll call…criticism that I wanted to address. And I wanted to address it because I definitely believe it is a valid “criticism.” The comment was made, I’m not sure how many times, that…and I’m paraphrasing here…’Well, sure, it’s easy to say there’s a problem, but what’s your solution for fixing it?’ Which I took to essentially mean it’s easy for me (which I want to address here in a second) to call for Coach X, Y, or Z to be fired but unless I had a replacement in mind I should probably just shut up.
Well, I spent some time thinking about it and came up with a list I think is pretty damn strong. But first I want to address this ‘easy’ comment above. I just wanted to acknowledge that I recognize these people who I’m saying probably need to go are, in fact, people. I understand they have families and that these jobs aren’t necessarily easy to come by. I know they work hard and, of course, want to be successful just as much — I’m sure even more so — as we, the fans, want them to be. That said, I also recognize many in the coaching profession — at least at this level — are paid quite handsomely and thus, in my opinion, open to being criticized publicly. I’d like to believe my critiques of their respective performances was objective and fair. I’m quite sure some of you may disagree with that, which is fine, but know going in my intent was not to rip someone simply for the sake of doing so. All of which I’ve just said may not make a difference in the world to some, if you’re even still reading, but for the sake of full disclosure I just wanted to put this out there.
Enough with the soap box, on to the list.
Alright, so here’s what I came up with. You’ll see it’s in line with respect to what I wrote Sunday and who I believe deserves to go. I have a couple caveats that require some additional explaining, and I’ll do my best to explain why I chose who I did without boring you to death with details you can just as easily Google yourself (if you care to). Know that I made what I considered to be a concerted effort to keep this limited to realistic names. So you’re not going to see me suggest keeping Bob and bringing in Nick Saban & Chip Kelly to be his defensive and offensive coordinators, respectively.
I’m not saying I have all the answers and this is the definitive list of what OU’s coaching staff should look like next year. You said you wanted a solution to the problem, not just pointing out there was a problem. This is my suggested solution. Nothing more, nothing less.
HC Bob Stoops – As I’ve maintained all along, I never said I wanted Bob gone.
OC & QBs *Rhett Lashlee – Currently holds the same position at Auburn, Guz Malzahn protege (obviously) super young (31, I believe), style perfectly fits (IMO) what OU should be doing on offense with their current personnel.
RBs Cale Gundy – No reason to change here. One of, if not the, best in the country at his respective position.
OL Bill Bedenbaugh – Love the progress he’s made during his first two years in Norman. Tireless recruiter.
WRs Adam Henry – Currently with LSU (who has turned out a decent receiver or two) but has only been there a couple years so no super deep ties to keep him from relocating, recruiting ties to SEC country, early 40’s, spent four years in the NFL.
TEs & ST Jeff Banks – Currently at Texas A&M, who are No. 2 in the country in special teams efficiency according to this, solid track record developing kickers & punters.
Co-DC & DL Jerry Montgomery – Again, in my opinion has been a fantastic hire. Gets a promotion here under my hypothetical and a chance to run a defense. Also an outstanding and relentless recruiter.
Co-DC & LBs DJ Durkin – Was Will Muschamp’s DC at Florida and by every account I’ve heard/read, a true star in the making. Has the rep as one of the best recruiters at his position in the country. Would be a home run hire.
DBs Travaris Robinson – Another guy who was with Muschamp at Florida, where the Gators produced a ton of talent in the secondary. Young (33) and comes with obvious SEC recruiting ties.
*__________
*Justin Fuente – Assoc. HC, OC & QB
Okay, let’s address these asterisks right quick. I put one next to Lashlee because as you’ll probably see just above, my initial thought was to list Fuente (a former Sooner and the current Memphis head coach) but wound up taking him out because I convinced myself he fell on the ‘unrealistic’ side of things. For one he’s obviously a head coach and already being talked about for other HC gigs. Two, he’s paid a little over a $1MM and whatever his fondness for his time in Norman I can’t say he’d take a pay-cut and/or a demotion (at least in title), plus I know OU isn’t going to pay a coordinator a $1MM+. For whatever it’s worth, the scenario I had in my head to try and sell it was making him the associate HC with a potential handshake deal he’d have an inside track to replace Bob whenever he left. I know, I know, flame away at me for that one.
As to the ‘fill in the blank’ asterisk, I actually have an open spot as there are only nine names listed and OU is allowed 10 coaches, including Stoops. I left it open mainly because I was interested to hear what you all would do with it in this hypothetical as I’ve laid it out. I had a couple ideas, which I’ll share, but I’m interested to hear from you as well.
My first idea – Promote one of Chip Viney, Corey Callens, or C.J. Ah You, all current grad assistants. Not necessarily sure how that would work given how I have things assigned above, but that’s for someone else to figure out, haha.
My second idea – You could bring in a dedicated position coach for QBs, or TEs, or DTs, or whatever. You’ve got a spot, you can fill it however you see fit.
—
Okay, commence the tearing me to shreds.
152 Comments
Still not sure we should kick Boulware out. Other than that, hard to disagree with you.
Agree. Too early to call this one. He got Bell prepared and the guy just might get a chance at the next level. Not sure what the prob is with McNamara but have heard hands. ST has seen significant improvement, esp on KO team, 16th w/ Ross 3rd, 3 blocked kicks. PR needs work but believe part of that was personnel/staff having
Shep and then Sanchez fair catch everything. That needs to improve ‘in a great way’.
Only thing I disagree with is I don’t believe Bob can – or wants – to fix it. Believe he and the university need a fresh start.
With that said, this kind of a staff remake isn’t without its merits.
I just don’t believe the staff is at fault here and the head coach isn’t.
Makes perfect sense. Too bad it won’t happen.
As far as the *_________, getting Seth Littrell back into the fold would be nice
good call
Picking on Kish has been popular for several reasons. I mentioned this the other day just to see what others think and this is the perfect post to mention it again. I wonder if bringing Gary Gibbs back as DC or CO DC/LB coach could work. Pros: He’s been a DC/LB coach for a long time. Currently coaching LB’s in the NFL. Negative: he’s older than Kish.
I wonder how much the TE’s lack of production has to do with Boulware’s coaching or the OC that is calling everything from the booth. Maybe someone on here has an inside track on this info.
TE became obsolete when Kevin went to Indiana. That’s on the OC.
Thanks Jordan, I made the comment. By providing your ideas regarding a solution I now can fully accept your criticism and reflect on its merits. I may not agree but you have my respect.
#respect
Jordan, I really like your list of names and it’s a wonderful wish list. I would bring Seth back from Carolina as our OC. He has coached under Kevin and now Fedora. His offenses have been dynamic with very little talent to work with. He’s also a good ole boy from Muskogee and is loyal to OU. He is a Head Coach material. I also think Chip Viney is a great choice to move up to DB coach. Players love him and I bet he’d recruit like a fool I love all of the other choices and we could only wish these actually took place. Sadly, I for one do not believe any changes will be made. I hope I’m wrong.
Sadly, I agree. First I would say without a doubt Bob is good man. As a coach, I just don’t think he’s very bright. I think we as fans are stuck with the present staff till they decide to move on. Bob is not going to fire his brother or Josh. I like Jordan’s wish list but, that’s all it is , a wish.
I’d be good w/ this as well.
Really appreciate you offering up these solutions and giving us feedback.
One thing I noticed is you emphasizing hiring younger assistants who recruit well. While I’m not familiar with some of these names you mentioned, I like this idea of younger assistants who are “up and comers”
So I’ll put you as a “maybe” on bringing Gary Gibbs back…
haha
Cale Gundy OC Jerry Montgomery DC and work down.
Yeah, I know we love Cale with the RB’s but I don’t know why he doesn’t get more QB or OC love. He’s done a great job with what he’s been given.
From what I’ve read, he doesn’t want to move from where he’s at.
Jordan, I give you a lot of crap, but what I like most about you is that you’re quick to acknowledge your writings are your opinion, and that it’s okay to disagree.
I still don’t believe there will be (or needs to be) a complete make-over, but I do find your list intriguing. If there were one available spot, I think I’d like to see Chip Viney promoted. The guy is young, energetic and a recruiting machine. It seems like his name is associated with so many recruits lately. Not sure what position I would emphasize with him, but he could certainly learn and coach simply because the players seem to really like and respect him.
All crap my way is warranted 🙂
“My second idea – You could bring in a dedicated position coach for QBs, or TEs, or DTs, or whatever. You’ve got a spot, you can fill it however you see fit.”
QB COACH!!!!
Thinking about this, it’s hard for any manager to make this many changes without hard facts to support it. In spite of the disappointing results this year, the team still had a winning season so it has to come down to looking at the numbers. Offensively, my reflection is that we scored enough points in most games to have won them. Yes, JH’s play calling at times was bewildering and maybe his best benefit is as a full time QB coach. Bob could justify the move based on style and direction he wants for the future. Defensively, there are problems and it can’t just be summed up to youth. The DC needs to change or Bob needs a heart to heart with his brother that the scheme is a big part of the problem. I don’t see the value in keeping BJW as the LBs try hard but are undersized and simply can’t plug holes. The secondary is lost and too often just beaten. Some of that is scheme and sometimes ability.
To summarize, I can justify some changes on the defensive side and maybe some responsibilities on the offensive side. Plug in your choices at OC, DC, and secondary coach. Wholesale changes make me nervous so I might start there and put others on notice.
I’m not saying the defense shouldn’t be fixed, but your statement regarding “we scored enough points in most games to have won them”…I question that.
Maybe 10 years ago 30-ish points per game was enough. And it probably still is for most games. But most of the rules changes in the sport have been to the benefit of the offense. Linemen allowed to go downfield, rules regarding pass interference, rules regarding holding, etc. I think honestly we’re looking at a new standard, the way the game is being played.
But, more than that – how many short fields has the offense put the defense in. How many pick 6s have added to the opponents scoring total, which inflates the overall numbers without the defense having a chance to stop anyone.
Again, not saying that the defense gets a pass, not at all…but you certainly can’t say the offense put us in a position to win game in and game out either.
Our defense is fine against the run, fine isn’t a championship term. Our defense against hungry competitors is weak. I don’t see ‘we’re going to force you to be the best offense you’ve ever been today’ in the defense we saw this season. Defense ought to plug holes where leaks are coming through: we didn’t plug leaks, we beat teams that couldn’t get an offense going in stride, and we lost to teams that made plays. Under these conditions we find our team at 8-4. I truly do not want an offense that scores enough points to win the game in spite of a fair defense.
No, I definitely get it. The defense hasn’t been up to snuff at all and definitely needs to be addressed. FWIW, I think the solution is making offenses pay for being so aggressive. Blitz the ever-loving hell out of them. Come at them from every angle. Create dozens of different looks for them to account for. Take risks and try to create turnovers. Dictate to THEM instead of the other way around. And ultimately, hit them. Hit them often and hard. Yeah, you got behind us for a TD, but your QB is out for the year (and no, not intentionally hurt players, but make them think twice about spreading out and leaving their QB unprotected). That kind of thing.
I’m just saying there’s more at play than just “our offense should be enough”. I know we scored a lot this year, and our defense gave up a lot. And…at heart I’m a defensive guy.
But anymore I don’t think that being elite is mostly about defense…like it used to be. The reality is that offenses are so good these days, and nearly every “good” team has athletes. Combine that with all the offense-friendly rules changes, and I think we’re just looking at a different era.
TCU is a good example. They’ve always had solid defenses, but it wasn’t until their offense got better that they jumped into the elite discussions.
Right. I also agree with the new era view. Dictation of the game is the distinct characteristic of elite football teams. It is, to me, always obvious when one team is dictating, or when there is a real draw war taking place. Dictating the game is something I’ve seen from the top four playoff teams. I’ve also seen great teams win big games, but not have the consistent genius to dictate their fate in the way of getting into the final four. I want to be a fanatic for a team that dictates, and OU has looked that part in years past. However, it IS a new era. The main evidence for that is just how damn competitive teams are becoming that have never been competitive. The Big 12 is better, much better than it was in the 2000’s. Therefore, we need the caliber of coach that can manhandle Briles, and Cumbie and friends. And, look out, because Kansas won’t be bad forever either. Oh, and Strong is going to have one strong team that will be obliterating teams in the next one to two years (just an honest assessment), case in point is his Louisville squad.
Agree on all those points. The thing that’s frustrating to me is that the two simplest ways to “dictate” are on defense and with the running game. I think early on we showed that we had the athletes to dictate on defense…but for whatever reason we got away from that aggressive mentality. Fear comes to mind. We didn’t like getting beat deep against UT and WV, so we changed everything up, and it backfired. That’s how I see it, anyway.
But these days, you’re just going to get beat, it’s as simple as that. So I’d rather the coaches come to grips with that, and coach for the entire game, not just coach for the times that we “might” get beat. UT beat us deep, and so did WV. But we also dominated time of possession and put our offense in great position by creating turnovers.
With regard to the running game…well, I think the evidence speaks for itself. But it’s not just about the running game. It’s about keeping the defense guessing…and while we did a great job in some cases of keeping it on the ground, we also didn’t recognize when it was time to pull out the play action. It’s like we would run when we needed to pass, and pass when we needed to run. And that’s a product of inexperience, in my opinion.
And that’s why JH is ill-equipped to be the OC. I think he has excellent potential as OC, to be honest. But he’s got a lot to learn about timing. And if we allow him to keep learning “on the job” at a place like OU, then we’re going to miss a LOT of opportunities to play for championships.
The standard of acceptability at Oklahoma is hardly just a “winning season.”
These are good names, but why would many of these guys you listed want to make these moves? Most of them are lateral moves at best. For instance, if Lashlee is the OC at Auburn, why would he want to come here for the same position? Auburn has it rolling way more then OU right now.
If you can fix the offensive struggles at a name brand school like OU, you would jump start the offers for head coaching jobs ( look at TCU’s offensive coordinator after his first year!?). Gus Malzahn gets all the credit as it is, so a lateral move to another big name, have success and you can get your promotion
or, you can stay and continue to dominate and the job offers will come.
if domination is ending up with the same record we have…..oh, and OU rushed for more YPG this year than they did, just sayin
Auburn has played In two national championship games since the last time we won our own conference outright. Lateral move at best.
Calling it a lateral move is fair. Saying 8-4 is dominant isn’t lol. Didn’t this guy come in with malzahn? So at best all hes done is lose a national tiltle. Hey, he will fit right in here, sign him up!
Lol
Neither Lashlee or Herman needs to change schools to get a head coaching opportunity. But replicating their success at OU provides a better opportunity to get a head job at a major power 5 school two years down the road similar to the jobs available at Michigan and Florida this year.
I like the list, but Lashlee makes $600,000/year and has been in a national championship game and is more likely to return to one sooner at Auburn than he would here. Unrealistic.
On the other hand, Sonnie Cumbie makes about $215,000/year. I think this one would be a very realistic addition.
Adam Henry and Jeff Banks would be great hires. Henry makes about $80,000/year less than Norvell, so I think we might be able to lure him with a salary bump to $350,000/year. Banks makes about $250,000 year, while Boulware makes about $270,000. But those SEC folks are so stuck on the mindset of SEC superiority that it may be hard to pull someone away especially when their program isn’t floundering/job is safe. But from a money standpoint, we could offer them more than they’re currently making.
Pat Narduzzi would be my choice for DC and perhaps future head coach. He makes $905,000/year, while Mike Stoops makes $850,000/year. So we’d have to push that $1 million mark to get him or at least offer him what he makes now in hopes he’d like his chances at winning and recruiting at Oklahoma.
I think Durkin and Robinson are doable especially since they’re looking for jobs.
Getting either Lashlee or Herman would be both difficult and expensive. However your program has regressed over the last 5 year like it has to take drastic steps to correct before your program becomes a Michigan and that includes writing a bigger check than history indicates you should.
Also OU offers something that neither Auburn or Ohio State can do. That is the opportunity to repeat their success at another top 5 traditional national program. Doing so would grow his resume to make the next step to a major power 5 school as the head coach. OU just needs to be pro-active and take all steps necessary to get their man.
Either proving they can replicate their success with the Buckeyes and/or Tigers further document that they were not living on the system success of Urban Myers and Gus Malzahn may be difficult. Success at OU documents they have the ability to make a major personal contribution to a team’s offensive success. For both Lashlee and Herman having success again at tOSU and Auburn does not prohibit Urban and Gus getting the real offensive credit for the job they do. OU provides that opportunity.
I love this post, wish you were administration right now to make this happen!! I would hire a Dedicated QB coach in that 10th spot. Bring in a OC to be just that, an OC. He can oversee every position and make sure his philosophy is being coached for his scheme but have a coach that works non stop with the QB’s on mechanics, footwork, pre snap reads etc.
Good list. Was wishing we could get Lashlee last season when we started this offensive experiment. Cumbie would be a good option as he has QB’ed and could coach QBs/CO-OC if JH were to move on. I don’t pay enough attention to other teams to really know who the ‘up and comers’ are but one at LB and CB would be my next wish. Think this would make a world of difference getting younger, energetic coaches still trying to make a name for themselves and not content to ‘just be here’. Staff change-over is a dynamic process and good for an organization when you introduce new enthusiasm and ideas.
Thank you (again) Jordan.
BOOMER!
It’s fairly obvious by watching games that we need WR development, QB development, and DB development at the very least. The responsibility for making all this happen falls into the 5+ million dollar pay range, which is slightly above mine , so all I can do is sit back and hope someone earns their salary.
Pretty Damn Strong Solution List. I would put Nick Holt, DC at Western Kentucky, as the DC hire. Of all the defenses I have watched this year, considering the team’s profile as I watch, Holt’s Hilltoppers was the strongest unit I saw, next to Alabama’s.
Edit: I like Nick Holt, but I think the younger theme is a big component of making the best possible hires.
I like Holt as well. WKU has had some NFL talent on the defensive side the last few years.
I think he is the caliber of coach who could do what Gary Patterson has done with his defenses every year. I’ll be happy to watch their bowl game on the 24th.
Part of McElwain’s deal was retaining Durkin. He would have been a good choice though.
Thank you Jordan. Is it pure coincidence that all of your recommendations are from the SEC? 🙂
Can’t speak to the coaching issue other than to say that I think Bob needs to go. I was in management for 20 years and I so a similar issue with managers with 10 years of tenure slowly becoming ineffective. I think the change is necessary for OU and Stoops.
The bigger question I have is does changing out coaches improve our recruiting? Obviously we have some coaching issues but it does seem that we are challenge in competing with the best of the best in college football and I’m not sure it’s all coaching/recruiting related.
Getting better talent can make all coaches look better. I remember Barry saying talent is the key to winning consistently.
you have a lot of admiration from me for steping outside the box like you did over the weekend with your article keeping coming.
I need to research some so I can have a legit answer for the position I disagree with. For OC I wouldn’t hire anyone out of the malzahn tree. I don’t think his offense is that extraordinary and I personally am disgusted by the “revolutionary” tag he gets. But I do want to offer up an alternative later on.
I did like your suggestions for the other coaching positions. And also I wouldn’t throw boulware out. I think he’s done a good job and I think the special teams flaws are ones he can’t be blamed for. I don’t think shepherd and Sanchez are his even in his first 3 choices as punt returner but I believe stoops has had so much say in special teams for years, that he hasn’t relinquished total control to boulware. Also the kicker getting yips is a phenomenon we will never understand.
I don’t believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny and not much into fantasy football the “coaching staff” edition either. I personally just want the team to play and execute better by whatever means necessary…interesting read though
I think it is completely within reason for fans to want more from the coaches and for them to be calling for change in some areas. But it is completely out of the depth of any fan to put together a dream staff for Bob Stoops…honestly it is disrespectful. Go into coaching or front office work with an NFL franchise if you believe you are qualified to do such things here.
Seriously…I am not saying the wind of change shouldn’t be blowing…it should in some areas. But Bobby Stoops is the guy who conducts interviews and makes hires.
And look where the program is as a result …
“But Bobby Stoops is the guy who conducts interviews and makes hires.”
Wow, you don’t say? Thank you for this clarification. I had no idea. Here I thought my random posting on a blog would be paraded promptly in front of Bob, at which point he’d immediately make the changes I suggested above.
Man, the fact that hasn’t already happened is a very humbling realization. I have been sufficiently put in my place.
The point being stupid people such as yourself are better to remain silent. This site offers some professionalism….and then there is you, a bipolar mega-fan who expects perfection. The role rollercoaster that is your thoughts on Oklahoma football is tiresome, and it is an absolute disservice to K and the others that you use this site as a format to vent your idiocy. Using your reasoning Oklahoma should just fire every assistant they can every offseason and replace them with that years flavor of the month.
I would say try to be more professional in how you go abott things, but the reality is you aren’t any kind of professional. You don’t have any football background to speak of and have simply been able to take advantage of the stage K created to voice your uneducated displeasure. Just a young immature kid who benefits from the others associated with the site being too busy.
Grow up kid!
You’ll never know the level of enjoyment I got in reading this. So thank you for that.
Hopefully one day way, way, way, way down the road I’ll be as smart as you. I’m sure it will never, ever happen, but one can dream.
Warring words Paul. I’m bi-polar, and Jesus does heal real illnesses, not just a nice story.
There are a few standard arguments every troll likes to make.
“How would YOU fix the problem?”: I’m not being paid to find the answer. The staff is. That doesn’t mean that I don’t have the obligation or right to question the current staff or team. I obtain that right through my support of the program, through buying tickets, attending games, purchasing merchandise…in general, contributing to the salaries of those who SHOULD be trying to find the answers.
“Who’s to say that anyone we get would be better than anyone we have…we could get another John Blake”: You’re right. But you don’t solve problems by ignoring them. Sometimes it requires change, and sometimes it requires making tough and, frequently, scary decisions. But doing nothing is also not an answer. In fact, doing nothing is more infuriating, because it implies that the people involved are more concerned about making potential mistakes that would hurt their reputation, instead of making sure that the team is getting the most bang for the buck.
“What makes you qualified to challenge coaching decisions? You’re not a coach/not being paid to coach…”: Simple qualification, I watch football. Does that mean that I would do as good or better job than the coach? No, but I’m also not applying for the job. Because a person hasn’t been a coach doesn’t automatically disqualify that person from being able to spot troubling patterns or questionable decisions. That’s a basic function of any reasonably intelligent person, and isn’t exclusive to multi-million dollar salaried head coaches.
Fan = fanatic. So people absolutely will go overboard supporting their team. I’m sure that all your efforts to make them feel bad about themselves are making the world a better place. But there are, occasionally, smart and objective fans that support OU football, and just want to see consistent problems resolved by the people who are being paid to solve them. If you don’t like people questioning the coaches or the staff, by all means keep crying about it. That’s your right. But it won’t stop me from calling it like I see it.
Well written and thought through. Appreciated by this fanatic.
BOOMER!, that’s all I can say.
SOONER!
Great points. What I like about this site is the differences between the writers but also the commenters. I’m up for debate any time.
Nailed it.
you bring up solid points. except for the fact that if someone disagrees with you, they aren’t trolls. that’s pretty tired. nobody’s saying changes don’t need to be made. i haven’t seen anyone mention staying stagnant and keeping every single person and idea we used this year.
and you call our side the one that’s crying, haha. i’ve faced all kinds of adversity throughout my life and my career, so i know how to handle it. however, when people get on here screaming about this guy needs to go, that guy needs to go, this guy doesn’t deserve a scholarship, this guy only got offered by new jersey tech and idaho wesleyan, it makes me wonder if they are happy with anything in their life or if they’ve ever faced anything head on in their life or just cowered in the corner.
its been obvious since i’ve been breathing that there are billions more pessimists in the world than optimists. and one thing about pessimists is the bitching never stops. a bad play call, bitching. a bad route run, bitching. a bad read on a throw, bitching. bad vision on a run, bitching. this recruit went somewhere else, bitching. that recruit pulled his verbal, bitching. this coach can’t recruit, bitching. this coach can’t coach, bitching. our record’s not good, bitching. we’re going to what bowl?, bitching, we have to play alabama?, bitching. we didn’t win the conference, bitching. we didn’t win a national title, bitching. we didn’t win a national title again, bitching. we haven’t won a national title in how long?, bitching. we haven’t won a conference title in how long?, bitching. we get it!! everything about OU football sucks and you hate life. awesome. move on.
we get called “head in the sand”, “sunshine pumpers”, “koolaid drinkers”, crimson glasses wearers” among many others. i would much rather be these things than someone who looks for the bad or negative in everything and then bash whoever disagrees. you get asked a simple question of come up with someone who you would want to replace whomever and its fly off the handle and why do i have to answer your questions? you should just let me bitch. well, because it gets tiring. come up with something constructive and have a conversation and talk it out, instead of joining the rest of the crowd with the pitchforks and torches
That would be a logical post…if it accounted for anything I actually said. I didn’t call out everyone who has an opinion different from mine. I specifically defended everyone’s right to have an opinion. The “trolls” are the ones that say that certain fans don’t have the right, or the qualifications, to question the coaching.
So, if you want to classify yourself as a troll based on what I wrote, that’s your problem, not mine.
“There are a few standard arguments every troll likes to make”
“How would YOU fix the problem”-well how would you?
“Who’s to say anyone we get would be better than what we have…we could get another John Blake”-yes we very easily could. How long did it take to get a stoops to replace a switzer
“What makes you qualified to challenge a coach’ decisions….you’re not being paid to coach”-this is the only trolly type comment here.
Point being is yes you guys are entitled to your opinion. Yes bring em. I like the conversation. The back and forth. Its just bitching about coaches to be fired, then they are. Then there’s bitching about the replacements. Then there’s bitching about those new guys being fired. And around and around we go. Someone would say “welcome to the real world where there’s complaining about anything under the sun that people care about.” And I would say grow a pair and let’s figure out how to get outta this mess
Man, this site will either sharpen a guy or drive him to calmer easier waters. Nice response.
Thanks. Point is people always try to lump all of us together as trolls. I try to single a group out. Nobody’s happy with 8-4. Not a single coach. Not a single player. Not a single fan. But unlike some people think, I don’t try to lump everyone who disagrees with me together. There are those that can be talked to and those that can’t. Ray and several others can be talked to. Then there’s quite a few that are just ready to jump
Trolls properly defined can be found in Tolkien’s work: an evil/wicked creature. The term is lightly used as a superiority judgement upon others who are easy targets, or threatening in some way. If I were at a grocery store and met a person who uses this term, and they called me troll I would be offended. But that is the phenomena of these boards, remarks like troll, or ‘you’re a bi-polar mega-fan’, are just dropped out of bomb carriers like it ain’t a human being they are dropping it on. This style of ragging on people is what I too don’t encourage. Do unto others as you would have done to yourself, law of the prophets: its either make a good attempt at living this, or be blind. I remember spending a lot of time on Soonerscoop, a lot of the guys that have been over there for over a decade have come over here. There are some pretty smart fans, and there are some guys that can get pretty soured pretty quick. I now know who can be talked to, and who cannot be talked to. I just want to build up the guys that I appreciate and think they are good willed, and just try to pay close attention to the guys who get sour, because its an opportunity to iron things out, sometimes.
Well said. I just wish I could remember who’s who. Knowings half the battle or some such
Well, again, you can read into my posts whatever you like, but it doesn’t mean you’ve understood my point. Keep twisting hard enough and taking things out of context and anyone can read whatever they want out of anything. But the reality is that I only defended the right to have an opinion.
If you expect fans to stop bitching about problems, especially after a tough loss, then you’re delusional. I covered that in the last paragraph of my original post. You might not like it, and I don’t necessarily either. But at the very least, I understand it, and I’ve come to grips with the fact that fans are just people who care deeply about a team, often to the point of irrationality. But that doesn’t make them any less of a fan, any less qualified to air their arguments…particularly after losing the way OU lost on Saturday.
But, that’s where the trolling comes into play. Trolls use those questions as a means to disqualify a person from having an opinion or making complaints about the coaches. I’m not saying they’re not valid questions. But most often, the intent with those questions isn’t to get an opinion out there or to get an answer out of someone. Those questions are intended to try and shut up the opinions of people they don’t agree with. I had thought that was pretty clear given the context, but apparently not.
And if you want my actual opinions about the coaches, I’ve provided them all over this thread. By all means, go read them and counter-argue all you want.
Bitching about problems is life. I completely get this. I don’t think I’m trying to just shut people up. I get your points. I do. But what I’m trying to get after are the people who are happy with nothing. Its just constant. About every single thing. That gets old to read through. And I don’t have the memory to remember who is who all the time especially since this place has blown up lately. And then you have the new people who jump in with both feet. Their opinion counts for something but who knows if its just trolls or what
I understand that. And I don’t think you’re trying to shut people up, either. I tried to state that…though I admit it wasn’t exactly in a friendly way.
If I want to participate in a discussion, I just try to filter out the garbage. For better or worse, this is how I generally rule out whether to respond:
1. Avoid posts with liberal use of caps and exclamations or littered with spelling errors. (Emotional)
2. Avoid posts that include insults, particularly when one person is claiming another is stupid. (Keyboard commandos)
3. Avoid obvious troll-bait. (Well…trolls)
Those tend to rule out the more annoying posts and you can get to the good conversations…with the occasional exception. And sometimes I’m ruling out posts with valid and interesting points by doing that. It happens.
Anyone who disagrees with you – bitching.
I think we all get it.
Read it again slower. You can do it. I know you can. And read Paul’s below. There’s something in there that talks about firing coaches every year for a new flavor of the month that sounds like it would hit home to several here
You mean the “Paul” that said this:
“But it is completely out of the depth of any fan to put together a dream staff for Bob Stoops…honestly it is disrespectful. Go into coaching or front office work with an NFL franchise if you believe you are qualified to do such things here.”
and this:
“The point being stupid people such as yourself are better to remain silent. This site offers some professionalism….and then there is you, a bipolar mega-fan who expects perfection. The role rollercoaster that is your thoughts on Oklahoma football is tiresome, and it is an absolute disservice to K and the others that you use this site as a format to vent your idiocy.”
and this:
“You don’t have any football background to speak of and have simply been able to take advantage of the stage K created to voice your uneducated displeasure. Just a young immature kid who benefits from the others associated with the site being too busy.”
Yeah, forgive me if I take that as a validation of my original points.
Haha. Ok you can have those sections. I’ll take the other one I stated. Like I said you bring up good stuff. I just took exception to being lumped is as a troll
Well, that’s I think where the misunderstanding occurred. I wasn’t trying to say everyone who disagrees is a troll. Just the crap where, essentially, “everyone who’s not the coach is stupid and should just shut up”, etc.
Agreed. Thanks for the back and forth and for not coming in guns blazing
That’s a big 10-4.
Which may or may not be right. But when your write a lengthy blog and tie your name to a growing site like tfb you best be able to back up questions that ask for solutions not problems. Theres not a damn person that doesnt agree with what he said but its nothing i didnt hear from fans sitting next to me at the game. All i can say is i expect more from tfb. They have started a great thing here but just like they question the coaches, i question them, especially when i read a rant that is lacking in substance. So instead of posting why everyone on the staff deserves to be fired. Heres why i say both coordinators deserve to stay. OC: easy he averages nearly 40 a game. Top 5 rushing attack and a solid qb away from being a 50 point a game team. Norvell. I more year. Too many freshman to fault him. He has recruited wr like no business. I say one more year and if they still cant get open cut bait. Bouleware deserves to stay. Special teams has been more consistent then ever before. The punt was not his fault and the punter hit in the wrong direction anyway not to mention a player over ran the returner for whatever reason. ……DC: upon arrival he improved the secondary play with a top 10 pass defense. However poor rushing defense. Switch to a defense that they didnt fully know and didnt have a full recruiting cycle to fill it yet with players needed. Improved rush defense to a top 10 but pass was awful. . Fix: need experience in secondary and corners that can press. Mbanasor and juco cb fit the bill. Juco safety also brings experience and competition to the position. sanchez can press. I say mike gets one more year but i think u will see kish and bjw go. I say viney gets promoted and a young upcoming lb coach is hired. DJ Durkin is perfect. Give him the co dc title and its set. Bring back shannon.
Well, that’s where the last paragraph comes into play. Expecting everyone to be rational all the time when supporting a team is unrealistic. I’ll say things in frustration and anger that I end up re-thinking later. Most of the people that go overboard are doing so because they’re posting out of the emotion of losing a game that should’ve been won. And online forums are a way to anonymously bask in the grief of the loss with other individuals that are experiencing the same emotions. That’s just part of humanity.
I think it’s a bit rash to ask someone 5 minutes after a shocking loss to start coming up with ideas for replacements. Anything someone comes up with in that moment is bound to be loaded with errors.
Regardless, as I said before, it’s not our responsibility to come up with solutions. Do we, as fans, have ideas that we’d like to see implemented? Sure, and we all express them in due time and in various ways. But ultimately very few of us have the access to do anything more than vent frustration.
Its not your ordinary person. The football brainiacs are and should be held at higher standards. You can go that route if want but that then makes them no different from me or you writing a blog. Im sure thousands of people read what he wrote. Nothing wrong with being upset but to rant like that is just empty and its somewhat disappointing when people look up to these guys. If they want to be that kind of site then it will be no different from 247, scout, or rivals board members saying the same crap. However, if what your saying is they are just an everyday joe expressing their feelings than perhaps im being too critical….. im not saying they need to be homers and positive all the time im just saying that when something like that is posted i will call them out on it if it doesn’t add up.
I get what you’re saying. I suppose where I might disagree a little is that none of these guys, as far as I’m aware, is getting paid to come up with answers. I kind of assumed that these guys were just regular guys who love OU football…albeit with some connections.
Which is ok to an extent but when you are selling t shirts and branding yourself like they are, then you might want to back the talk up a little…. You seen how bad the pub was when the Nick Saban to Texas post went sour…. Whether they like it or not or have intentions of just doing this for fun is completely irrelevant because of the status they are reaching with fans…. You are right they are not getting paid to come up with answers….However, they are also not getting to rant either….They have followers and are growing into something fresh, exciting and different and I feel like empty criticism w/o answers doesn’t need to be included when it comes to social responsibility toward the fans, players, or coaches of the university they love….. I do get what your saying as well but reading what his post consisted of didn’t sit well with alot of people, not to mention recruits like them and read their posts…. To think it doesn’t shake trees is probably an understatement….And I guess if I was gonna ask a question it would be if a post like this negatively effects recruiting, would you really want it posted as half-ass rants or would you want them to be more thorough given how easy it is to negatively recruit against kids these days??? There are always pros and cons to things but at the end of the day…. We all want the same thing….. Number 8
That’s right! A person can criticize high taxes and all the waste and corruption without making their own tax plan! That is what the people you have put in the office are for- and many are very well compensated to do it. But your choices are interesting and valid, Jordan, even if the criticism wasn’t.
I got this…
OC & QBs – Jordan Esco
WRs – Super K
TEs & ST – JY
Co-DC & LBs – Ace
DBs – The Yost
Hype Man – Sooner Ray
Co-Nutritionist Coach – Me (somebody has to get rid of the fried pies and pudding in an eco-friendly manner).
Hey man there are some contributors on this board that should at least get their resume in the stack.
Yeah, I was more than a little surprised when my name wasn’t mentioined.
Perhaps it’s my spelling.
haha. I’ve been studying, I’d like to get my foot in the door, I can do stats, I can scout, etc, etc.
I’ll be your co-supervisor of recycling and sanitation. Just want a spot on the roster, who knows, maybe have a Gastelum moment for myself if I draw up a trick play that works well on the whiteboard.
On that note, I will miss Caleb Gastelum, and take this time to note how great of a moment it was to see him play so well, and get a scholarship in the locker room. Highlight of the season, among others.
I’m using TFB as my lone reference. Experience: I once downed a half-gallon of choco milk while chipmunking two cinnamon rolls and a ham kolache WHILE ALSO assuring my wife I could breathe.
Current Employer (According to my wife, because I spend a lot of time here): The Football Brainiacs, Supervisor: Jordan Esco, tel #: N/A email: N/A address: N/A, may we contact your employer: No.
LOL! Well done, man.
Sometimes its fun to be here. Other times its just business.
I hope you have some large donors lined out. I may seem cheap on the surface but the cost of my services could bust a budget. 🙂
I’ve already fired myself.
Great, now I don’t have a job.
And this is why I followed Esco to TFB. Where else are you going to get this?
Yup. That’s the right stuff.
I too followed Esco here. Good move.
I’ve meant to ask this previously but where was esco previously?
Crimson and Cream Machine.
I still like it over there
Sure not as busy as it once was, easy to keep up with all the comments.
Which really did, for me at least, become real weak after Esco departed. So, testament to his talent, and play making ability.
Starting to look through some team stats trying to find an OC that is efficient. Also one who isn’t afraid to run the ball. Found an interesting stat…we were 12th or 13th in overall efficiency so it’s no secret that this season hinged on executing during key moments. If they let heupel go here’s a guy they should consider. Matt canada from ncst
http://www.gopack.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/matt_canada_832368.html
And another guy. Joe Rudolph. I’m looking at guys who led an efficient offense that aren’t high profile because I don’t think ou is willing to outbid for an up and coming OC that would use the job as a stepping stone.
http://www.pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/rudolph_joe00.html
And this guy tony franklin. Has ties to south east and California. May have been at Kentucky the same time as leach if my memory is correct
http://www.calbears.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=749429&SPID=126513&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=30100&ATCLID=207769818&Q_SEASON=2014
You are actually earning your role in the new staff right now.
And this is the last guy for now. Billy Gonzales. Not sure if msu wears their big boy pants when it’s time to pay coordinators so maybe a guy that can be swayed from a guy he’s worked with for many years.
http://www.hailstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=90894&SPID=10997&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=16800&ATCLID=206385860&Q_SEASON=2014
Awesome Jordan. I hate that damn “well who in all of your football expertise would you recommend to replace stoops” question. HATE IT!
I like the ideas but I see Stoops doing nothing for some reason.
I hear ya there, I hear ya there.
I don’t see any coaches from the SEC coming to OU if it’s a lateral transfer. It has to be a big pay increase or a Promotion.
Call me crazy but I think we should follow Bama’s blueprint!! Clean house for the most part, keeping Bedenbaugh(sp.), Monty, and Cale!! then go after Chip Kelly and keep asking until he says no 50 times. We have the money!!! GO GET HIM!!!! Bob needs to go, he has run his course!!!!
I haven’t read the other comments (so maybe this has been said), but in some cases, your list includes guys that would either be taking a reduced role at OU, or would be joining OU from an equal program, at an equal position. Those types of moves don’t happen very often. Why would the Auburn OC move to OU for the same spot? Why would the WR coach at LSU take the same spot at OU?
Fair points. I’ll address the LSU guy since you mentioned him specifically. I listed him b/c (1) he’s only been there two years, so no super deep ties to Miles, (2) no real other ties to the program, like being a former player or whatever, (3) why would he make a lateral move in terms of program prestige? – $$$
Oh, and the Auburn guy. IMO, he’d leave if you give him the opportunity (and $$$ of course) to get out of Malzahn’s shadow and run his own offense.
Not to add the proverbial fuel to the fire, but this is a quick read. The link says it all
http://athlonsports.com/bob-stoops-blame-oklahomas-hugely-disappointing-2014-season
Short, to the point, and hard to argue with.
Actually it is pretty slanted and misleading. The 2 for 6 that it mentions Rudolph threw for before the punt return actually included a 43 yard TD. So even if they had declined the penalty OSU had just scored on offense in one of the last two series and would have had a good chance to go down the field and do it again. Also it mentions about just declining the running into the kicker penalty because they already had them on the 15 but “Stoops wanted to pin them farther back” which they actually did since it was a 92 yard punt return it was 7 yards further back. The lack of execution for covering a 32 yard punt is what is not acceptable. Sure a 50+ yard punt, that leaves a lot more field to cover and more room for the returner to operate but 32 yards on a repeat try, come on. No one on this forum likes Stoops’ “lack of execution” press conference response but that is exactly what happened on the punt return.
Nonsense. I’ve been at this OU football thing for 40 years, and Stoops’ decision is the worst coaching gaffe of those four decades, let alone potentially in Oklahoma history.
You could unload a short bus and not find a soul who’s dumb enough to re-punt to a track star. It’s common knowledge that you avoid sending your coverage team down twice under a kick at all costs.
There’s no defense for Stoops’ mistake. He personally lost the game. If this site allowed down votes, you’d get one.
Awesome reply. Obviously won’t go over well here but I agree with you. Some people are just done with this crew of coaches and nothing will be able to talk them off the ledge. Just let em jump
There are some awesome analysts and thinkers here.
Then there’s the rest
Yeah.
boom.
Simply silly. A coach must analyze all the outcomes before making a decision. Now the outcome is known, but before the second kick there was a POSSIBILITY of getting the ball inside the 15 and a certainty of taking at least 6 seconds off (63 down to 57). There was also a POSSIBILITY that the snap would be high or low, that OSU would be skilled enough to block the kick, that the kicker would bobble the snap or drop the snap. There was a POSSIBILITY that he would shank the punt such that it was on the 30 and not the 15. There was the POSSIBILITY that he kicked it into the end zone and the ball ends on the 20. There was a POSSIBILITY that an OU player commits a penalty and the ball is 15 yards further up field. And there is that POSSIBILITY that the fastest player in the league returns the punt further up field than the 15 or even for a TD.
Just too many bad outcomes for the tiny gain of a good outcome. 85 yards with no timeouts is very difficult. Cutting six or seven seconds is NOT worth the risk.
That decision is the WORST in-game decision I have seen at OU and I watched Gomer, Gibbs, Smellyburger, and Blake makes some awful ones.
There was also the POSSIBILITY that OSU gets a holding or block in the back penalty or they muff the punt and we recover. You are right that a coach analyzes the possible outcomes for these situations and the odds for most of those situations have a pretty high variance i.e. high chance that the ball is returned or fair caught (Hill had only returned 2 punts for 3 yards at that time of the game) vs OU punt getting blocked (typically you don’t try to block a punt from your own 40 yard line and they weren’t trying to do that). So based on the stats that Barnett had 5 punts already with an average of 38.5 yards and is very capable of putting the ball where it needs to be to pin them deep-er and did just that. Whether he sent it to the wrong side of the field according to the play call I don’t know as I’m not privy to that information. The probability based the actual game stats at the time of the re-punt are in our favor of making the play. The Lack of Execution is the reason that play goes for a TD. If you go back and watch the play you will notice a player or two that are almost ten yards behind the returner officially out of the play after that. Also the reason that Stoops makes that call is he knows his players and their abilities better than you or I and has seen them make that same play numerous times in practice so he trusts that they are going to do what they have demonstrated that they can routinely perform. He seems extremely loyal, a quality that if true I highly admire in this day and age, so he will rarely if ever give up a player(s) to the media when asked about any mistakes in the game. You will and should always get the Lack of Execution response. Having said all of that, this one play while frustrating is not the play that cost them the game and very rarely is there one play that costs a team the game, it is the sum of the whole process. Also worth noting it is actually much harder to go 93+ yards to score than 85 as being close if not in your own end zone dramatically limits your play calling generally limiting you to several run plays to create passing room. At that point in the game OSU was less than 100 rushing yards for the game so the odds of us keeping them from moving the ball on the ground were going to be in our favor. There are so many other examples of poor execution throughout the game if one decides that they want to find the real reason for the loss other than going HC hunting.
.
Sum of the whole, sum of the whole. That’s the point right there.
An absolutely spot on account of the train wreck this program has become. Unexpected source, but props to them for nailing it.
If there is a better running back recruiter than Cale Gundy, I haven’t seen him. With Cale being an ex-quarterback , I would like to see how he would do recruiting QB’s and RB’s.
Keep Josh Heupel to coach QB’s only.
Monty has been a good hire, but I think it’s a little premature to bump him to DC. I also hate co-anything. I don’t think a top notch DC will want to share responsibilities anyway. We’ve seen what happens when you just move up a position coach to a coordinator. People complain that Heupel wasn’t ready. We shouldn’t make the same mistake with Monty. Let him earn his DC stripes somewhere else.
I don’t think that’s unfair. Admittedly, I was trying to think ahead a little bit in how bringing someone else in would factor into possibly losing him down the road. Which I’d obviously not want, so even if it’s a little early you give him the DC title now.
I love these choices Jordan, however, I don’t see any scenario where Mike goes and Bob stays. I think we’re stuck with our DC due to the HC being his brother. Would love to have Durkin, and promoting Monty would be great too.
Like what you did here, Jordan. I fall more on the optimist side of things, so your posts can sometimes get under my skin. But I will say this- no matter what you post, you get extra points because you attach your full name to it. The internet would be a much different place if that were the case for everyone. And, PS, not a bad list…
And I don’t want to insinuate you are a pessimist; I’d probably put you in the “realist” camp.
appreciate the feedback
This is a prime example of what separates this site from some of the other OU sites(especially OUI). You always get the sugar coated, sunshine pumping version of everything. They do their best to convince their readers that all recruits are all but guaranteed to commit to OU(yet Hale’s picks currently sit around 35%). The coaching staff is OK, just going through a rough period. Scared to ask a tough question at a press conference(Only Hoover does that). Not one staff member picked OU to lose a single game this season. According to them, we are a 13-0 team so there’s no need to play the season out. In my opinion, “reporting” like that is part of the problem. How can you fix a problem if you refuse to see one. How is the coaching staff/administration supposed to think there is a problem if the media never takes off their Bob Stoops knee pads and just takes every response he gives as gold.
This site isn’t scared to tell it like it is, and I for one appreciate that. Thanks Jordan!
When BS was first hired, he said he hired Leach b/c he wanted to run the style of offense that was hardest for his UF defenses to stop. Why not go back to that philosophy & hire someone off of Baylor’s staff? They obviously cause MS to curl up in the fetal position & start drooling. Not sure if you could pry Montgomery away since he’s already OC & has been with Briles forever. But surely you could bring Jeff Lebby back home (signed & graduated w/ OU) in some capacity in your fill-in-the-blank role. If you’re firing BJW, Lebby would also replace the TX HS recruiting ties & relationships that BJW once provided.
My Christmas wish list, A TACKLING COACH.
Great post Jordan! this is why I very seldom read any other sites about Sooner football. A person can offer a legitimate thought about the football team and I don’t have to sort through a bunch of juvenile posts. I appreciate the time to think your list out. I would love to see some (if not all) of these changes made. I would like to see S. Littrell com on board. I wouldn’t have a problem with JH staying on staff, if he could go back to being the QB coach. He did a great job when he could focus on the QB’s and not worry about developing a game plan.
I must say I’m fairly amazed at how many are ready to ditch Mike Stoops. I remember all too clearly all the folks who thought he was the savior that was going to finally force out the despised and incompetent Venables and resurrect the OU defense. Honestly, I don’t believe there is a DC in the country who would do much better if at all. I think offenses today – especially those in the Big 12 – have just gotten to be that much more difficult to defend. This isn’t the old days of I-formation football anymore. If Kirby Smart had to play teams like Baylor on a regular basis, his defenses would likely get shredded too. I honestly don’t see how anyone could conclude otherwise.
Kirby’s D did hold Tex Aggies to 0 pts this year……and Mizz to 13
I’ll grant his D has looked better this year on the whole. But honestly not one of those offenses can touch Baylor. And the same Auburn team that barely put up over 300 yards against KSU put up over 600 against Bama along with 44 points. Just saying – if he had to compete against really high powered offenses like these, his D would get scorched.
Man, I feel like I totally missed the boat on J. Fuente. I remember the guy from OU (and Tulsa Union), but I had no idea he went on to such a great career (thus far!) Good for him!!
I like your personnel suggestions, but wonder if any are very realistic other than if the two FL guys are still looking.