Sideline Issue
Posted on: November 9, 2014
Everyone seems to be talking about what caused the blow up between the Stoops brothers and Julian Wilson.
I know the cause of the blow-up. I’ll say quite honestly that 9 times out of 10 I’m going to take a players side anyway. I’m frankly getting sick and tired of hearing the fan base clamoring for added talent, as if every team out there is somehow playing with elite talent at every position. As if OU has a bunch of chopped liver on the field. As if OU is the only team that sustains turnovers or injury. I still remember people throwing Tony Jefferson under the bus…he seems to be doing just fine in the NFL. But I’ll save this rant for another post.
I won’t detail the frustration because I only know the details of one side of the story. But I can tell you that the blow-up we saw on the sideline yesterday wasn’t the first. Just a few weeks ago we saw Mike Stoops and Tim Kish yelling at each. I recall seeing Mike Stoops in Jerry Montgomery’s face last year.
The scheme is Mike’s. The game plan is Mike’s. The defensive calls are Mike’s. The cornerback alignment is Mike’s.
So all I will say for the moment is, it would be nice to see a little less yelling and a little more effective coaching.
Injury Note: As a side note Julian had surgery on his hand today.
183 Comments
Well first off Julian, you gotta line up 8 yards off and execute.
The worst part of it may actually be the free release…though it could be argued. But these free releases every down are mind boggling.
Amen to Tony Jefferson comment. As we all know it’s the Stoops way or the highway. As Bob will say ” so what “.
As much as I cringed at that comment, I had mixed feelings about it just in the sense that…you know Stoops was in a lot of pain and anger after that game and for the most part he was pretty calm. I will say though that, he would have left me with a lot more confidence if he would have come in…immediately shouldered the blame and said…”it will get fixed…this isn’t acceptable at OU and I take full responsibility and I will fix it”.
December 1999 my latin instructor let us out of class early so we could go to the press conference introducing Bob Stoops as the new coach, so I was among those who, after years of John Blake and Joe Dickenson blaming players for poor execution, cheered when I heard the promise, “There will be no excuses.”
Alas, times change …
Super k bob stoop’s and this my view be he doesn’t care about the avarage sooner fan when he is asked about the fan’ reaction he he just blow’s it off but now you have ex player’s like the boz,and billy sims, and tony jefferson taking shot’s at his coaching and it hurt’s he can’t blow the ex player’s off like he does the avarage fan
He shouldn’t care about the average fan’s opinion. You think Saban cares? Meyer?
Why they help pay his salary if the fan’s don’t pay to go to the games the sooner’s don’t make all that money that david boren loves
So right. There is one thing Bob and I certainly seem to agree on and that’s Hoover. I cancelled my subscription and I can say he is not someone I would invite to a Christmas gathering. I can say that but Bob has to be civil for the most part. I’m sure your people at OU know a lot more than what they can say or you would put in public print. They value their jobs and reputation so their mouths are sealed tighter than a bull’s ass in fly time! Has anyone heard what the recruits are saying, their silence is deafing.
Hoover may have asked the question, but the fans heard the response. The question deserved an answer. I’m not a Hoover fan, but his was a fair and honest question. Bob makes enough money to be able to handle these questions. In fact he should expect them. He should expect to be criticized when his team underperforms so badly.
Stoops is a coach whose business is to fix things. He doesn’t need to state the obvious.
He never should have said it and he needs to comment on that during the presser. That is unacceptable at a University seeking to raise $300 million from these fans for a stadium improvement that is largely intended to create more suites for businesses. Frankly, Boren should have a talk with him.
One of the most frustrating response styles Stoops has is that. “Poor execution.” “Didn’t make plays.” “Have to play better.” “They made mistakes and you can’t do that.”
All things that point the finger at the players, yet in the post-game press conference he said he wouldn’t name specific people. Right, but yuh kinda did.
I guess it’s all how you come to it. That’s pretty much exactly what I heard him say:
“I take full responsibility, it all starts with me, so I didn’t do a good enough job”
“I’m a lot of things… No, I’m not happy at all, I’m very displeased.”
Again, recognizing that this is a press conference looking for headlines that can have dramatic repercussions, and that he still has some games left to play this year, I’m not sure what else you’d expect him to say.
And if you have followed Coach Stoops’ press conferences close, and I suspect you have, then you know that while he is often careful about the words he selects, he is very direct and he doesn’t make it hard to tell how he feels about something.
Bob has a pattern over the years of identifying problems and dealing with them. This was a very, very unhappy Bob. And when he’s that unhappy, in my experience, he does something about it.
(We can talk about whether he should care about what every micro-managing yahoo with a keyboard thinks about every step he makes or word he says, some other time…:-) No disrespect intended to you or myself or any of the other astute and wise posters on this site. 🙂
You can’t always put the blame on the players cuz the coaches are the ones that put the plan together. I will just say there is plenty of blame to go around. One thing is everybody needs to be on the same page, plain and simple.
Bickering is the norm (with all teams) when things aren’t going well.
Things usually aren’t going to go well with you change your defensive identity 3 times in 3 years haha
I agree, but BS won’t get rid of his brother.
We can hope that MS accepts pro job somewhere, right? Or maybe a lesser school wants another Stoops (M) as their head coach.
I don’t think he needs to go. Just need to consider bringing in a co-dc so he’s got help like he did when coach v was here
Oh, I do. We can see that OU needs their CB to play closer to the WR. How can professional coaches not see that?
And when OU got help for BV, then he quit. Maybe some “help” will do the same to MS.
Who coaches the safeties and CB?
Mike S coaches Safeties and BJW coaches CBs.
They need to get BJW out like yesterday. Heard some good things about Viney. Players really like the guy and he can relate to the young men.
BJW coached CBs at Texas like two decades ago. He was brought to OU because of his recruiting prowess. He has been the Special Teams coordinator and coached DEs at OU before this new stint as CB coach. I have to assume he played DB in college.
BJW was also the DC at Texas back in the day, so I wonder how much he is in Mike’s ear about schemes.
But if it’s broke, and it is broke, it needs to be fixed. Not sure how much Viney works with the CBs, but have heard good things as well.
In the offseason I thought moving Julian to CB was to play press? Utilization has been whats most perplexing about this season. I think both offense and defense have been a lot different than what was expected. Not just because we have 3 losses. I’ve seen some things I like but there is a lack of focus and consistency in the coaching staff.
It’s sad because the players seem pretty close. I’m still proud of this team. And I hope the angst of us fans doesn’t spoil their camaraderie. It’s football, have fun.
I thought so to. I thought that’s why they were recruiting long cbs. Who recruits big cbs to play off coverage?
MS is getting close to the age where confusion starts to set in.
Or they’ve got two guys that never played cornerback coaching the cornerbacks and determining the alignment. It’s no wonder OU plays a safety technique and alignment at every position in the secondary. The coach making the decisions was a safety.
Was Gundy a RB in college? I think coaches (with any brain capacity) can learn, without playing that position.
QB at OU
I understand that. I was saying that Gundy was NOT a RB in college. BUT he’s now a RB coach.
That dude can coach. His players develop
Gundy is a good recruiter, he lands guys that he knows will fit the system. Being a former QB means he knows the responsibility of the RB’s for every play therefore can teach them that. A good running back doesn’t require as much learning as a defensive back. Not arguing with you but I played running back as well as corner so I know my responsibilities on offense were almost always the same where the defensive plan (not technique) changed every week.
It’s a fair point but as ray noted, CB is a highly detailed position within its technique. Just as an example, a CB must learn to move backwards as well as he moves forward…that’s unnatural. Anything unnatural requires the correct repetition over and over until it becomes natural.
Sk. I truly do value your opinion. U know far more than me. I love the site that y’all have created. Thank you for all you do!!!
The problem, as I see it, is that the OU coaches can’t seem to adapt. And they are poor game day coaches.
Bingo!!!
I smell what you’re cooking.
Exactamundo!
Didn’t Tony Jefferson go undrafted? I’d say there are a lot of NFL coaches “shocked/surprised” at his play too.
I also don’t think making or succeeding in the NFL is how we should measure coaching at OU. Some guys simply fit the pro game better. Just like OU’s had SEVERAL great college players that didn’t do squat in the NFL.
Jefferson was one of the best tacklers we’ve had in a Stoops secondary. He is excellent along the line of scrimmage and the Cards use him that way. We did too his first year at OU.
Funny thing is, most people complained at his tackling ability, oh he missed that tackle, yeah, cause he was in wide open field against some of the most dynamic players in football, he is damn good, not perfect. lol
Of course Tony went undrafted. NFL coaches aren’t prophets. If you put a kid in a horrible scheme (which mike and bob admitted and have since trashed) and he looks horrible how is an NFL coach supposed to project that he will end up being good?
I believe he was hurt the last year too. He was a playmaker his first two years
Tony had an excellent career at OU. You talk as if he was completely misused. We moved him around his final year at OU because we needed him more there. To say that Jefferson would’ve been drafted higher doesn’t seem accurate. He could’ve played for Saban and not gotten drafted any higher. He just knows how to be around the ball…kind of like TRRW, yet his NFL career didn’t pan out as most OU fans expected. Bottom line is- chit happens. I don’t think it’s a fair accusation to say that Tony was misused or underused.
So your point is Tony was not good enough to be a good cfb player? I don’t think that is very accurate, you just need to put his tape on his first two years at OU, he was a stud, freshman AllAmerican if I remember right. But, coach Mike never utilized him well, just like we put AC at Safety and wasted his time there.
We have talent. Not sure we have talent in the secondary that fit the style of the big 12 besides sanchez and parker. Not a fan of Hayes or Thomas. Neither can cover worth a damn and that’s probably the most important trait in the big 12. Move Wilson to free, start Parker at the other safety spot, and bring jordan thomas in at corner. The more guys that can cover the better. Play press man coverage and blitz and take chances. On offense, pretty simple take the play calling responsiblities from heupel and Novell and give it to Gundy. It sems he is the only one that has a clue. Oh get rid of Kish bc he cant seem to fill one of the four spot we have at LB. WE DONT HAVE A SINGLE LB RECRUIT THAT IS COMMITTED.
I agree on Gundy. RB is one of the few positions where there is depth, and they seem to be playing to their abilities.
I agree with everything you said here 100%
If they’d only let us call the plays, and set the defenses, we’d never lose.
I haven’t lost a game yet. The more beer i consume the better my play calling abilities get.
Sad part is that I’m screaming at the TV, like the coaches and players can actually hear me.
I do that…..very therapeutic, especially with a game like yesterday.
It’s allowing me to get premature greying.
If the sideline issues ever come close to that as was between Buddy Ryan & Kevin Gilbride, then we know we are in trouble.
As I said on the other post, the yelling is bothering me. Mike makes all the decisions, he needs to man up and blame himself. Yelling at a young man because your system is getting picked apart like child’s play is wrong. Moreover, it is unbecoming of OU to have that on TV.
BS and MS are very arrogant.
I would go with a stronger word than “very”. But your point is spot on
Does said word end in “ing”?
I like to see coaches COACH. If he is out of position, or making mistakes, COACH him, tell him again what he needs to do. Screaming seems counter-productive!
I saw during the blow up time that Mike was patting the back of his head at Wilson. What did that mean?
I saw it too but I took it for a hand signal aimed at the field for some defensive alignment he was calling. I think a player on the sideline was making the same gesture.
Look, we all want OU to be in the hunt every year. But how many of you went through 81, 82, and 83 with me? 4 losses in four consecutive years. Stoops hasn’t had that happen has he? I want to know why no one is calling for Knight to be replaced by Mayfield. Three pick sixes or near a pick six in three games? Need a Jones, White, Bradford type.
Mayfield ain’t eligible, thanks to coach sunglasses and NCAA
Of course. OU fan since 73! I am looking ahead to 2015. This year is done.
Have been a fan since early 50’s and will always be a fan of the program but that sure as hell does not mean that I will love every team, play or coach. I screamed at every coach we had between Switzer and Stoops. From the first play of the JB era, I knew we were in deep doodoo. Some of the play in the past two years have started reminding me of dear ole John.
i think the nellies or “realists”…or whatever they’re calling themselves these days…have mailed it in already. the bottom of their schedule got ripped off their program or something. obviously some folk don’t know much about the program if they think mayfield could possibly help this year. i would almost put $ on if stoops were to leave, whomever they get to replace him would have circles coached around him by stoops, but they’ll call it a strawman argument or whatever the internet nomenclature is these days and won’t want to answer the question
Very true. Mayfield or Thomas have to start bc knight is still making dumb decisions. The dude is always rushing his decisions and never looks off the safeties. Poor footwork. We are asking him to be a passing QB when he isnt.
Safeties and linebackers are just watching his eyes now because they know he doesn’t look for them.
I’ve seen enough stubbornness from stoops to think we are stuck with Knight.
You sure got that right. Barring injury Knight will be the QB until he graduates.
Question. I went back and watched the 2014 Spring game and I know everyone thinks “Oh, you can’t really judge between players on that game…” However, Mayfield was pretty accurate and Knight wasn’t.
I still don’t think it will matter. I don’t think Stoops will admit he was wrong about TK. Hopefully I’m wrong.
Sad. But might be true.
You could prove to be right but Stoops has always harped about having players that take care of the football. If TK cannot develop and Mayfield or
Thomas show they can get it done w/o the turnovers every game, IMO they get their shot. I hope it’s a wide open spring at all positions as it should be every year with few exceptions.
Yes. And Bob seems to value consistency in who plays in the sense that once Trevor was out for an injury and Blake replaced him it was Blake who once again remained the QB until he, himself, got hurt and BS was forced to change.
No one is calling for Mayfield because he isn’t eligible to play until next season, he can only practice this year. I seen plenty of the early eighties and all of the Smelly and Blake games, not an easy time to be a fan and it hasn’t gotten near that bad here yet.
Sooner ray you know i don’t attack the player’s i have allway supported the player’s as all true sooner fan’s should but the coaching is something else that game was as bad as any i have seen since i have been watching the sooner’s in the 1970’s all i can say sooner ray if this team where to lose next week as i said early today the wheel on this sooner schooner begin to come of it will be ugly after yesterday i can’t say it won’t happen because it just may that was the third worst home loss ever yesterday the coaching sooner ray was as bad as the 1990’s
I lived through 81, 82, & 83 and remember it well. Out of those 12 losses we only lost 1 by 20 points, the 81 Texas game 34-14. And that game was close going into the fourth qtr. We also lost these close games to some very good teams: 81 – USC, Texas, Missouri, Nebraska, 82 – West Virginia (with Hostetler), USC, Nebraska, Arizona State, 83 – Ohio State, Texas, Missouri, and Nebraska. Nebraska, USC, Texas, and Ohio State were national title contenders. Missouri was very solid.
There was a very slight talent dip during those years and we also had the Marcus Dupree debacle that set the team back. Virtually all of those losses were very close. The scheme wasn’t the problem. The King upgraded the talent a hair and by 1984 we had some young studs like Keith Jackson, Paul Migliazzo, Spencer Tillman, and Boz on the field.
Since 2011 we lost by 20-plus to OSU in 11, A&M in 12, Baylor in 13 & 14. Not to mention getting whipped by Texas in last year by 16. While we do have talent on this team, our recruiting as a whole has slipped. Couple that with some baffling schemes and poor game day coaching and we have a program that is a 3-loss per year program. OU has now lost at least 3 games in 7 of the last 10 seasons. The King lost 3-plus games 4 times total. BTW, can anybody tell me what our offensive scheme is? It seems to change from game to game. What does this staff want to do on offense? This has to be frustrating to the players. And the defensive scheme seems to be to look at the abilities of our players and then do the opposite. The situation the OU program is in is on the coaches….period.
I have never been one to call for getting rid of coaches. There are more important things in life than football. But he is getting paid $5 million per year and with that comes accountability. I don’t believe a staff shake up will solve the problem. The problem is with the head coach. I have always supported Bob Stoops and he has built a good program. I do not believe the program will ever be better than good while he is the coach. Are we ok with that? This is an honest question. If so then we should stop complaining and enjoy the ride. If not the we really need to consider the possibility that Bob needs to move on.
I think there are several problems with the defense stemming first from the head coach. While at the gym this morning I was thinking about all the quality control positions OU has now that put together game film and analyze for the opponents tendencies. These are things coaches used to do. Does this create some disconnect on the coaches part with what the opponent does or can do? The quality control guys are,filters and the coaches see what they have compiled. Not saying this is THE reason for the woes but it is new and needs to be analyzed for its impact.
Mike Stoops is not a good coach if he cannot establish buy in from the team and they seem baffled by what they are being told to do. I don’t think Jefferson, Wort or Lynn had much confidence in MS. But MS is here to stay which means BS needs to go. He’s lost his edge. While iI’m appreciative of what he has done for OU and the way he leads young men his shelf life has expired. Get some DC or OC from a productive team and tap that energy into this major college powerhouse and yiu will see results. If not, you only have to look At programs like Texass, Tennessee, Florida state (pre-Fisher) and Michigan to see where OU is headed. The talent is there at OU, the structure and mechanism for success are in place….just need the staff to make real all that potential.
I remember people saying similar things in ’83 when Barry was going through his third straight 4 loss season. “He’s tired, he is just playing to his ego, he can’t win anymore.” Fortunately the powers that be didn’t listen to the grumbling and Barry had some nice years until he resigned. Oh yeah, he won another NC and would have had a couple more if not for friggin’ Miami. Just sayin’.
This team hasn’t done anything since 2008. That’s 6 years now.
Who would you bring in !!!
I personally don’t want Stoops gone, but the whole “he has done so much for OU” as an excuse to keep him is stupid. You don’t pay someone 5 million dollars for what they did in the past. That’s a great way to lose a lot of games.
And most will point out the national title games OU has been in. Yet, they’ll forget to mention that three of those were 10 years ago. Also, they’ll mention the Big 12 titles OU has won. With the playoff, winning the Big 12 doesn’t guarantee anything. The goal should be to get into the playoff.
The program just hasn’t been the same since 2008. Only the most die-hard sunshine pumpers among us don’t see this yet.
this is what pisses me off. you people think you are “realists” and you see us as “head in the sand stuck in our ways sunshine pumpers”. you people want to burn it down and call that fixing something when we want to fix what’s here. you are pessimists, we are optimists. to just completely ignore the other side of the argument is ignorance
No_one_is_saying_that. No one.
Your entire argument is based off of a strawman argument @disqus_BeW3hegp9d:disqus
ok then color me misinformed. what are you saying and excuse my temper please
Isn’t it obvious @disqus_BeW3hegp9d:disqus? False Hope every year since 2009. Something isn’t right down in Norman. I’ve been following this program since the early 80’s and this is hands down the most disappointing season I’ve ever seen.
All this talent—-and there’s a ton of it down there—-is just going to waste.
disappointed and seething begin to describe it. i too have loved this program and this school since the early 80’s. we should have been better this year but maybe our perceptions were skewed quite a bit. there is a ton of talent on this team and this staff but they need to take a step back and figure it out
Agree with you 100 been a sooner since the 1970’s
and yes there is a contingent that wants bob gone. whether it be because he is cocky, or they don’t like mike or josh is his golden child. whatever the reason there is a group that wants bob gone and will not be happy if the replacement stinks and would pretty much be unhappy with anything in their lives
You cannot have a coach who is making $5 mil a year be this mediocre and not expect people to complain. But don’t mistake that for anyone (outside of the extremist fringe) wanting a complete overhaul at the top.
Now if OU loses again this year……………all bets are off.
the titles aren’t there but as a school who’s been playing football since the 1800’s, we only have 7 national titles. now, all things being equal, 7 is a lot. tied for 5th all time. the ivy schools don’t count because they were the only ones playing when the game 1st started. but its still only 7, not 70. anywho, he is due for one for sure but only 3 coaches have won one in our history and only 4 coaches have been awesome in our history. bob is on both of those lists. he is 13th ALL TIME in winning %. parity is here and has been slowly getting here since bob has been here. but still, if bob is mediocre, i would hate to see what you think of the next guy
http://www.tiptop25.com/topcoaches_winpercent.html
We have 15, but only count 7:
Oklahoma recognized National Championships
1950
1955
1956
1974
1975
1985
2000
NCAA recognized National Championships
1949
1953
1956
1957
1967
1973
1978
1986
-Notre Dame has 22, but have 8 National poll championships (1936–present).
-Alabama has 19, but have 10 National poll championships (1936–present).
-USC has 16, but have 6 National poll championships (1936–present).
-Oklahoma has 15, but have 8 National poll championships (1936–present).
-Michigan has 16, but have 2 National poll championships (1936–present).
-Ohio State has 14, but have 5 National poll championships (1936–present).
I have tried to stay level headed after the past few weeks and the losses to TCU and KSU, as OU has been playing this horrid scheme with the CBs playing off the WRs and the offense wanting to pass the ball when they have a stout OL and dynamic backs, but if Stoops mentions this loss on poor execution, I will blow a top. We are all seeing that it is the schemes, not poor execution that is causing this frustration.
Too late.
Just said today on his coaches show…….it’s execution.
I sure hope Ed did not blow his top, but I sure did pop a few tops. I always drink out of cans when watching OU football, glass shatters everywhere. Sometimes I just laugh at myself when I start arguing with the TV-the wife just laughs. I think I had a melt down at the start of the 2nd half. Did Petty start out 14 of 14 on passing? That’s hard to do in warm ups.
My beer must have turned on me at halftime, didn’t even taste good the second half. 🙂 My wife looked at me during the third qtr. and asked if I needed to be placed on suicide watch.
I awoke on my living room floor just as TK got knocked out. My right hand is still sore from punching……………..something.
Before I passed out that is.
Oh goodness my man I can imagine you sitting in your recliner with that stare and evil grin. Like the guy sitting in the latrine with a gun under his chin in the movie Full Metal Jacket ( I believe). Surely it will get better.
Yeah that’s the right movie but the only thing in danger of being shot here is my tv. I can jam a receiver with a pistol while holding my beer in the other hand.
OH NO, HE DIDN’T!! “Whips hair (or what’s left of it) and snaps fingers twice for effect”
Would bet anything Bob wouldn’t have the nads to hire and outside consultant–a good experienced coach– to come in and sit in on game prep, practice, sideline and booth activities and give him a report–a STATE OF THE OPERATIONS REPORT. That’s what any real business would do, and even other coaches have too. Joe C should STRONGLY suggest it.
I wouldn’t be so quick to assume he wouldn’t. I don’t know for sure one way, or the other, but I know Stoops has consulted with many coaches in the past (Saban, Ault, etc.). So, it’s possible.
One thing’s for sure, there needs to be a major evaluation. I’m not calling for anyone’s head, but if you can’t take a step back…after a loss like that…and realize the status quo isn’t good enough, then you have to be blind. I don’t think Stoops is blind.
Any major evaluation must begin with an understanding and embracing of Pogo’s timeless evaluation, “I have discovered the enemy, and it is I!” Not sure Stoops is ready or even able to look in the mirror and see the foundation of the problem.
If we cover up any mention that our complaints were about OU and try to guess which team and coach we’re berating we’d probably guess Texas and Mack from a couple of years ago. Seriously.
Baylor has done OU the way OU used to do Texas.
for all those that have mailed this season in, there is an article under the espn pay wall from travis haney, who covered the team for a whole whopping year, that says its time for him to go. i’m sure its awesome….sarcasm
I read it. Haney notes that due to staleness of program and length of tenure, Bob (and OU) might be better off in taking one of the high-profile open coaching positions. Not sure what to make of it b/c his (Travis’) comments were backed by quotes from anonymous coaches. Maybe he’s right…
Leave for a high profile job while he already has one?
Of course he’s right, anonymous coaches were quoted.
You make the best point that can be made, obviously. And while I’ve always been a huge supporter of everything Stoops is about, the most recent beat down from Baylor kind of flipped my football world on its head. I’m sure reading such an article was no help. Anyways, boomer sooner!
Everybody gets their butt kicked at some point. I don’t like it but I don’t see a trend.
I just eat the pain and keep moving forward, which is what I hope the team and fans will do.
And of course, E”SEC”PN is the one advocating Stoops to Florida…
One does not have to spend years covering this program to know that there are major problems in Norman.
problems? yes
major? no
OU just got housed at home in the worst home loss since Blake was here. A team that was an early favorite for the playoffs is now nowhere to be found in the polls. OU has now lost back-to-back home games for the first time in the Stoops era. We rank close to dead last in pass defense in a conference known for it’s explosive offenses.
And you’re saying we don’t have major problems??? Lol!
yes. that is what i’m saying. as aaron rogers said, “relax”. i will never be one of the burn it down type people. you aren’t even close to a guarantee of someone better coming in here. has bob earned a little leeway? yes he has. i get it. 6 yrs, we haven’t done anything. but he has started making changes and maybe there’s more coming. but, i’m not gonna be one of those guys who says bob will never win another title at OU because i can’t see the future. and anybody who says they can or they know what’s gonna happen is lying to himself and to you
Is this team even bowl eligible yet??!?!?
Enough with the strawman arguments.
Yes.
i believe you know that answer
How sad is it that that question needs to be asked this far into the season?
problems? yes
major? no
Take care and correct the small problems and the major problems will become non-existence. I don’t know what they mean by major problems. I suppose 0-9 instead of 6-3 would be major. OU’s problems can be corrected, lets see what happens the rest of the year.
exactly right. if you have 4 or 5 small things, they become big things. heck, if you had one cancer it could become a big thing. if dgb stays next yr and say mayfield won out in camp, that’s 2 very big, very important leaders. we HAVE TO HAVE a qb on defense too. i don’t feel we have one. i’m hoping alexander or evans becomes one next yr or even the rest of this yr. for this yr, we just need to work on game to game, heck even practice to practice and just each man and each unit and each principle of this team to get better little by little and trust that each man will do his job and you do yours
We have so many small problems in all areas of the field, you have to wonder if it stems from some bad practice habits.
i would say yes. you practice how you play because you play how you practice is a motto i was taught a long time ago
Very true, never even thought about that – like boomersooner said below. I have heard it said many times that coaches can tell how their team will play by the way they practice. It’s time for this old man to form a relationship with his pillow, I wonder if my wife has the bed turned down. Probably so since her Chiefs won today, would ask but she doesn’t always respond correctly. Don’t ask you already know the answer.
OU needs for their captains to step up. Yesterday they were for the most part out of sync. The only four I can think of are T. Knight, Hunnicutt, Daryl Williams, and Julian Wilson. They were elected captains for a reason and it’s not all their fault-that’s not what I am implying.
no no. i just mean the trust issue. you need to trust the man next to you. i was never in the service but i can imagine the training that comes with it. the best you can possibly ask for(you’re trusting the man next to you with your life). same in sports but to a FAR less degree. trust that they got the training you got and that that training is what is needed to make you a better player and the man next to you a better player. if not, then something needs to change. find out what that is and you’ll get better, if not drastically better
Mike Stoops is DC brother of Bob Stoops. Josh Huepel is OC married to President Boren’s daughter in law. NEPOTISM? Excellent at creating disillusion and division.
Okay, everyone keeps saying the most ridiculous stuff about Heupel’s relationship. Josh Heupel’s sister Andrea is married to Dan Boren, son of Pres. David Boren
@disqus_84x5yMjHRx:disqus was a bit off in the relationship but that doesn’t change the fact these people are more than just co-workers.
Didn’t mean to sound irritable, but I have yet to see anyone who mentions that relationship get it right. Ironically, I believe Andrea met Dan through Josh when he was playing here. I think that relationship has less to do with firing/not firing Josh than does Bob’s relationship with him.
I’m not big on hiring anyone you can’t easily turn around and fire if their performance falls past acceptable levels and Mike and Josh both fall into the category of extremely awkward terminations.
curious, are you ‘ss’ from oui?
Yes, I am
…welcome to tfb world………..don’t tell hale you’re here……..lol
…..did you watch bama/lsu last nite……similar to the last game at death valley where bama snatched victory at the end and left them stunned…………I was ‘rphdenton’ on oui but did not renew…….good to see you here
i have read tfb for awhile, just didn’t post. Still on both sites. Really enjoy everything here (except game results). I remember you!
I stand corrected. Josh Huepel’s sister is President Boren’s daughter in law. That is still NEPOTISM.
I think this season has been disappointing for many reasons – the most glaring reasons having already been stated multiple times in this thread and many others. There have been far too many baffling decisions (scheming and play calling on the coaches and execution by the players) made on a team who seemed to finally be coming into their own identity at the end of last season – this weekend’s team did not look the same as the team that sent everyone’s expectations heading into this season. I think that calling out the inexplicable meltdown of coaching and “execution” right after the fact probably led to the very terse and defensive responses (I am not trying to defend the question or the response – but just noting that IMHO, I can imagine myself responding in far less restrained tones given the same context) that hopefully will be addressed in the days to come as the heat of the moment fades and a careful analysis of the situation is made. Emotions aside, the fact remains that there needs to be a higher level of honesty and public accountability to what is going on – not only has the public and the “monster” that is Sooner fandom lost their faith in Stoops’ system, but he’s rapidly losing the confidence of the players as well (and potentially recruits as well).
Granted, I came into the Sooner fold at the very beginning of Stoops’ tenure so the worst season I’ve seen was the 2006 campaign. I also lack any in-depth understanding or knowledge of the game beyond watching it from my couch and playing video game football (which is why I love this site’s breakdowns and explanations of the game). The dark decade before Stoops came is legend to me, just as the glory days of the King. But despite my lack of intimate appreciation of Sooner lore, I’m going to join the unpopular stance and say that we are not yet headed toward Texas or Tennessee-level crappiness. I strongly think that some difficult moves need to be made for the sake of the team (which may include coaching changes), but at the same time, I don’t really want those who can make those decisions to do it for my sake. After all, if it were me calling the plays on offense, I would just run 4 verticals on every play and if the receivers were covered I’d run the QB, and I would blitz on every down and ignore covering the receivers (I’m not very good at video games).
Really good post.
Thanks!
Coaching experiments and taking chances on players is usually the result of deciding you don’t have that good of a team. If we had the athletes that are better than most there would be no need to experiment or try to put round pegs into square holes. This would speak to these great wr’s we recruited last year not seeing the field with the wr’s that played this year. We don’t know what our identity is, and therefore we recruit what we do. Outside of a few games FUJH has no continuity in his calls and should have already been gone.
I am still having a hard time believing I woke up today in a world where Baylor whips OU… repeatedly. Trying not to be melodramatic but in the context of football history…it’s mind blowing.
In the context of “football history” it is unthinkable! But sadly in the context of the current coaching enviroment and mentalilty it is not only something we should worry about but I fear it is INEVITABLE! I hate to bring up this reference because it certainly hasn’t got that bad but John Blake was known for being a great recruiter and bringing in talent but NEVER PUTTING PLAYERS IN A POSITION TO SUCCEED. He never took advantage of what his players were capable of and many times had them playing wrong positions. Now for most of the year we start a QB who’s best atribute is that he is moble and can make plays on the move and we make him a pocket passer. And on defense we have become some kind of soft zone please make a mistake so we can get off the field defense and it sickens me to my soul. It was bad enough till I saw that 30 for 30 with Bosworth. That defense attacked, attacked, and when it got tired and worn down it attacked some more. It hit people so hard in the first half they didn’t want to play the second half. They took the other teams will. This defense sucks the will out of our players and fans, and even worse I fear will only make it harder to recruit.
This has not been an attacking defense for awhile.
I also watched the Bosworth episode and something that I realized is that Switzer was coach for 15 years and Stoops is on his 16th year. Now while that in and of itself isn’t anything to jump on, I think complacency CAN (not is) become an issue. My point here is that it feels like the better teams in the conference seem to have read “the book” on our strategies and are now looking past us and further down the road…
Might be time to get out of the box we seem to find ourselves in…
You are not alone in those thoughts Super K.
What’s scarier still is you know that Strong is awakening the burnt orange, so having to deal with them whilst now trying to better Baylor means our recruiting battles are just getting harder and harder as there are more and more attractive Big 12 colleges with a taste of either rich tradition or recent success.
Stronger Texas teams in the Big 12 will keep more Texas kids in Texas. Eventually it may make it all the way to Lubbock.
Super K, if you’re Joe C., Bob, whatever decision maker, what do you do staff wise to fix this? Who would you like to see brought onto the staff etc…
Thanks for the question Kelly! None of us are commenting on that publicly at the moment bud.
It’s a perplexing situation all the way around. Sure, coaches have to plan/scheme & put players in right positions to be successful.
What racks my brain though, especially after a game like yesterday, is that it’s so hard to put a finger on the probem(s). Can’t imagine what CBS is thinking.
Truth is, it is a lot of player execution. It’s not TK, it’s not the Oline, it’s not the safeties, etc, etc. Even with the perfect plans, we just have at least one big fail regularly. It’s dispersed quite evenly, to madening extent. Pick6, blown coverage, holding, missed FG, dropped passes, running into punter, personal foul, missed tackle….the list goes on and on. Individually most players are playing a lot of good football. But collectively….always a big fail regularly that seems to round Robin through the entire team.
That’s what I’ve seen this year & players getting disheartened in their play thinking ‘there’s always someone who ruins a great play’
It’s mind boggling to me…where to start, when the problems are consistently inconsistent within team.
May be time to get back to the fundamentals in practice. Too late for this season but may as well get a good start on next year.
We say this year after year around here……………….
Most are horribly timed mistakes it seems too. There’s never a good time, but I’m talking game critical situations. Drive whole field, then fall apart. It’s just everywhere, it blew my mind this week again. Veterans, rookies, everyone….
Nobody’s perfect & I’m truly not coming down on players, truly. It’s more the timing of errors & scope more than numbers.
Which has been a big problem with schemes on both sides, consistency. Mind blowing from a CBS team that preaches consistency. Both O & D will have good days, then games that leave head scratching.
Where was the diamond this week? I think JH called good game, with that exception…which gets me scratching again.
What a low point in the Stoops Ou era this picture represents. I’m a big fan of Julian and continue to stand behind him. He’s a press corner, and there is a damn good reason why he is on the field, let him do what he does best. People act like teams have been picking on him all year. He rarely even gets thrown on unless receivers drag him across the middle of the field. Poor kid
Such an intelligent response. It’s frustrating to see people acting like Julian has been playing horribly all year. In fact at a certain point he looked good enough to force DCs to throw the ball to the other side. And the staff started him (with high praise from everyone in the summer) over: Stanvon Taylor, Dakota Austin, Cortez Johnson, Marcus Green, Tito Windham, and Jordan Thomas. At a certain point, if he’s supposedly THAT bad then how supposedly bad are the other corners? And what on earth is wrong with development then? This is a coaching failure point blank period. If what you’re asking a player to do is the right thing and he can’t do it then find someone who can. If you’re asking a player to do the wrong thing then fix the scheme/alignment.
I strongly disagree. Wilson has been horrible all year long. I agree with you that it’s still a coaching issue. As far as I can tell, this year is simply a failed experiment. I know we are all upset at Mike stoops. 2013 defense was not all that bad – part of the reason why we had such high expectations this year. This year we made some drastic changes in hopes that our defense will get better. Unfortunately, that has not happened. This is the only reason why I still have some faith remaining in Mike Stoops. The best players don’t always play at OU. Our coaching philosophy has been very consistent from the very beginning. Stoops is a big believer in rewarding order players and God knows he has a big dog house. After watching last years sugar bowl, I refuse to believe that Julian Wilson is any better than Dakota Austin. What Austin has done to not see this field this year is beyond me. But Wilson has been unsuccessful all year. It’s no surprise that Baylors game plan was to pick on him. Everyone knows that Sanchez is not the best of tacklers. Sanchez was also giving up the same cushion that Wilson was giving up. Yet, Baylor continually threw towards Wilson…that wasn’t accidental, but a deliberate design. For better or worse, Stoops rewards his senior players…and Wilson is a Stoops type of player, does the right things, doesn’t get in trouble etc. even with that said, he has no business being a cb in this league …especially at this university.
Wilson’s antics on sidelines are unacceptable. He’s a senior, he should know better. He needs to have a tight leash moving forward or he can just ride the bench. I’d rather lose every game the rest of this year than have a divided team next year because a senior leader doesn’t know how to behave.
Julian has not been horrible all year. Outside of a few very very well thrown balls where he was right there in coverage, he hasn’t been beaten over the top with any degree of frequency. There have been multiple games where the DCs either refused to even go to his side or if you go back and review the film, the QB couldn’t find an open receiver to his side with any frequency. And he’s done that all while being asked to play a technique that doesn’t suit his strengths and with a passive pass rush. I’m not saying he’s a playmaking Thorpe award winner but to say he’s been “horrible all year” is, in my opinion, completely inaccurate. But we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that…among most other things you noted. Cheers!
Do you happen to have the grades for each game that Wilson has played in.
That’s not K’s point. Everyone has their strengths & weaknesses but we are not playing to the strengths of some of our players. ie: Julian.
Wilson is being asked to play a scheme that is completely foreign to his style of play. It would be like OU making Landry Jones play as a read option dual threat QB. Could Landry have done it? Sure. Would it be pretty and effective. Nope. Same with asking press corners to play in space off the LOS. No chance to bump a WR to disrupt of help influence their positioning on a route. The reason Sanchez appears to have more success is he gambles more by nature and is probably one of our quicker reaction CBs.
Austin probably is a slightly better CB if wex are asking CBs to play like Zack. However, Julian brings so much more savvy and experience to the table. Wilson does not get burnt badly too often. If he gives up a completion, its either because of the stupid cushion he is asked to give, or its been a great thrown ball by the opposing QB. He just isn’t playing with his natural scheme.
I have to completely disagree with this post. Wilson has been a solid corner, especially considering it’s his first year playing the position at this level. Yes, he’s had a couple issues, but overall his play has been pretty solid. The main problem with him is what he’s being asked to do by this coaching staff. Even a novice like me could see that the defensive strategy against Baylor was inept to say the least. The fans weren’t booing the players because they allowed Baylor to march right down the field after halftime. They were booing the coaching staff for putting our players in the position to allow Baylor to do that. Nobody else has the balls to stand up to the coaching staff and tell them that the scheme isn’t working, so kudos to Julian for having them. Watch today’s press conference and that will more than back up that point. Hoover is the only reporter at Stoops’ press conference that isn’t intimidated by him, and willing to ask the tough questions. Everyone else is scared.
Very good point, the other reporters need their passes taken or moved to the back if they aren’t going to ask anything worth asking.
A bunch of sunshine pumpers.
Or if he is trying to catch up!!! IMHO he is not a corner and the biggest mistake was putting him there.
i put this as a reply down the thread a little but didn’t want it to get lost in the shuffle. bob is a heck of a coach and there is no arguing it. he doesn’t play patsies every week. he doesn’t schedule 4 ut-martins every year. the titles aren’t there but as a school who’s been playing football since the 1800’s, we only have 7 national titles. now, all things being equal, 7 is a lot. tied for 5th all time. the ivy schools don’t count because they were the only ones playing when the game 1st started. but its still only 7, not 70. anywho, he is due for one for sure but only 3 coaches have won one in our history and only 4 coaches have been awesome in our history. bob is on both of those lists. he is 13th ALL TIME in winning %. parity is here and has been slowly getting here since bob has been here. but still, if bob is mediocre, i would hate to see what you think of the next guy
http://www.tiptop25.com/topcoa…
Parity is only a small part of the issue. If all things are equal (parity) then all the onus falls on the coach (no parity). The only thing I blame on Bob (at this point) is allowing these “game plans” to become the norm. Besides what happened to adjusting to what the the other team is doing? I am starting to believe that Mike’s success in his first tenure had a lot to do with Brent. I’m not saying it was Brent who made the defense good, what I’m saying is they needed each other to be successful. Heupel as the QB coach: A; as the OC: D.
We have valid arguments about the wrong coverage, waste of timeouts etc. The thing that infuriates me about Stoops is not the bad gameplan, it is that the last few years he is consistently trying to lower the expectations for this team. Like being 6-3 or 7-2 this time every year is not a bad thing.He has become arrogant (you can claim he always was). Yes he has accomplished everything (NC , all 5 bowls ) , but right now i see a guy who is satisfied simply with having a “good” team, not a great team. I hope this loss serves as a wake-up call, but if this guy still thinks that 10-2(we are not even there, i know) is great , he need to go.
I find it ironic Super K calls out coaches with years of experience in the game for coaching positions they didn’t play.. Yet Super K didn’t play at all & thinks he knows the players & schemes better..
OU could solve their problems by : 1.) DOWNSIZING to FCS status. OU would once again be ‘ the big fish in a small pond’ and probably dominate with the facilities already on campus and not having to spend $ 300 M + on upgrades. This should make the alumni and fans happy because the Sooners might go on another 47 game winning streak against FCS – quality opponents; 2.) By downsizing, OU could make ample use of instate prospects, trim the cost of recruiting, all of which would make Joe C happy ; 3.) Boren would also be much happier then spending said $300 + M or more on purely academic infrastructure ;4.) by going FCS, the Sooners could pay a new staff significantly LESS in salaries.; 5.) dropping down would mean not having to play texas or Baylor anymore which would take away the need for the extra cost of antiacid medication / extra alcohol on gamedays while watching OU ‘perform’.; 6.) and by downsizing , OU could play teams in similar demographically-challanged areas with similar population bases and available talent sources……………….a win-win for everybody and OU could look foward to winning NC’s again.
I thought Robin Williams died
Clowns scare me.
No way stephen has gone off the deep end sooner ray
You mean that was a serious post?
Wow.
Just
wow.
I needed a good laugh on Monday
SuperK – is it just me, or have we reduced the threat of our pass rush, namely Striker + Chuka + Geneo (not to mention Phillips, Dimon and Walker)? It almost seems like we’re playing prevent and not rushing the QB for fear we’ll get burned deep which puts more pressure on our LB’s and secondary.
Speaking of LB’s what do you think about Kish and his coaching?
When our defense doesn’t stop the opposing offense (aka Baylor was 4-4 on 4th down and had no turnovers) it puts more pressure on our offense. And this year’s offense just isn’t built to get into a shoot-out and win. Would appreciate your thoughts
And gaining 1 Yard is FUJH’s or is it Bob Stoops’ arrogance.
A couple of thoughts; Why with an offensive line with the size they have being larger than a lot of NFL teams notwithstanding Darlington can we not make a yard or 2 running the ball up the gut. Secondly, Daryl Williams getting at least 3 false start or holding calls and appearing to laugh and smile after each one. THAT warrants a coach up in his grill! Not Wilson. Just sayin’.
So, K…are you now prepared to give your opinions about which OU assistants need to be replaced?