Recruiting Issues (Part 1)
Posted on: May 12, 2014
Image via Sooner Sports
A lot of OU fans are worried about the current state of Oklahoma recruiting. The recent decommitments of Du’Vonta Lampkin and Josh Wariboko, of course, only added to that concern. I think a lot of Oklahoma fans assumed that the big win over Alabama would cause a flood of commitments…but it didn’t. Now before we talk about this, I just want to say that I’m not particularly worried about where we stand right now. However, I do believe there are issues. With the obvious question being what exactly are the specific issues?
I know everyone wants to know why recruiting is slow and to be honest, I don’t think there is any one reason. I think the answer has multiple parts. I’ve thought of a number of reasons as to the ‘why’, and I’m still working through my own thoughts on it. But I’ve tried to write down various factors that I think matter, and I’ll offer up a few thoughts on some of the traditional reasons that are typically cited. Then open it up for discussion and input from y’all in the comments section below.
Facilities
Some say the reason we aren’t getting early commits is because our facilities aren’t up to snuff. With the recent discussion of the facilities upgrades it would seem Oklahoma believes that facilities matter. And I don’t disagree. I’m just not sure I believe they matter as much as other folks do…at least as a stand alone element.
Two of the programs that are always used as a standard for programs with great facilities are Oregon and Oklahoma State. I checked their commit lists and Oregon currently has four commits (same as OU) and Oklahoma State currently has five (one more than OU). I’m sure people will be quick to say that Oregon doesn’t have a fertile recruiting center like Dallas only 2.5 hours away, and OSU doesn’t have the tradition that OU has…but again, my point isn’t to discount the benefit of facilities – it’s to say that their centrality may be overrated.
At the same time, I can tell you that one of our signees from the 2014 class literally crossed a school off because the dormitory’s weren’t a place he wanted to live. Also, a current Oklahoma target told me about a conversation he had with another player the Sooners are recruiting about Headington Hall, and how much they both loved it. But in talking to recruits, I’ve never got the impression that facilities were a huge deal, unless they were below the standard. In fact I asked a recruit to compare Oklahoma and Oklahoma State’s facilities, and he really didn’t seem to feel they were particularly differentiable. Some things he felt were better at OU, some things he felt were better at OSU. He said, essentially, the same thing about OU vs. Texas facilities.
Again, I think facilities can help. And I think you certainly don’t want to fall behind. But I don’t think Oklahoma’s facilities are the primary reason OU isn’t winning early commits.
In forthcoming posts I’ll offer some commentary on other reasons (other program’s boosters paying players, recruiting territory, etc.) that may be factors in why Oklahoma seems to be having some recruiting struggles.
62 Comments
We have 4 commits not 3
fixed
respectfully disagree.. facilities are a big deal for any kid who didn’t grow up a Sooner fan.. when they get on campus & can physically see the difference.. its a problem we have to overcome for now .. but soon enough it won’t be an excuse anymore..
I think your focus is a bit narrow (e.g. growing up a Sooner fan). Simply put, facilities are very important to some, a minor consideration to others, and mean nothing to some. Each recruit is unique, so the factors that influence them are also unique. To some, it’s simply a coach. To others, it’s about winning. To others, it’s about exposure and getting to the league (i.e. LSU players who are lazy are $h!t, yet still get drafted).
Now, having as many influential factors as top notch as possible is obviously important, but clearly, based on Super K’s interviews, our facilities are not markedly sub-standard to anyone nor are they a final factor in most decisions.
I AGREE TOTALLY JIM! It really seems like maybe part of our problem is we have a “ONE PITCH FITS ALL RECRUITS” mentality! I’m not sure we do a good enough job of reading recruits and figuring out what is important to them and focusing on that when we recruit. This also address some of our “communication issues” if a kid is telling you he is dying to play Corner don’t talk to him about playing Safety! If the kid makes it to OU and sees he is not going to be a starting CB but has a chance to start at Safety that is an easy sell then but not during recruiting. I thought they did a great job with Mark Andrews last year! The kid wants to be a WR and that is how they recruited him. If he gets here puts on another 20 – 25lbs of muscle over the next year or so they can them tell him you are going to be a solid WR with not enough speed but with great hands or you can be an ELITE TE which do you prefer! I’m not talking about lying or just telling people what they want to hear! It’s about reading people and finding what is important to them! As you said some care about facilities a whole bunch, others care about the Head Coach, other more about position coaches, others about putting kids in the NFL! OU has tons to sell to potential recruits just need to figure out what is important to each one and focus on that!
My concern at this point with facilities is what seems to be our fixation on revenue-producers – luxury seating – to the exclusion of needed football-only facilities, such as a dedicated football facility.
It certainly fits with the mindset of this administration, but giving rich people more seating opportunities is only an indirect – if that – enhancement to the program, while a dedicated football facility is a direct benefit that certainly enhances recruiting, which has nothing but positive financial benefits as well.
Really disappointed with Boren on this one.
Well the profit margin in College Football has been shrinking for years. OU is one of the few that actually profits from their football program. And by few, I mean that number is less than 15 now I think. So I think its okay for them to find a way to increase profits, and I do believe several football facilities are planned to be upgraded. Weight Room, Medical Suites, ETC.
Winning is better for the bottom line than anything else, and luxury seating isn’t as cost-effective as keeping up in the facilities arms race. They are making a HUGE mistake if the dedicated football facility isn’t built.
Winning does help profits, but not as much as you would think. Especially with a program like Oklahoma that traditionally wins 10+ games a season. I agree some of the facilities should be upgraded, but I think they plan to do so. One of the big things I have heard is our press box does indeed suck quite badly. We could possibly generate more revenue from TV/Radio (two of the biggest money makers) by upgrading these facilities. When I went to Texas, they had their press boxes filled with the latest and greatest equipment and facilities. I am not a reporter but I was blown away…and I hate Texas. And while their large fan base had a lot to do with it, I think their press facilities helped net them that lucrative deal. My point is most college programs are losing money like crazy. OU football is one of few that puts money back into the school. But if it doesn’t make moves to increase profits they will slide down the slope and begin losing money at some point.
I think the press box is needed. One thing I would love to explore is the hype machine. You always see stories about the power of the SEC. How many draft picks came from SEC and you always see Saban, Sumlin, Jimbo Fisher, Urban Meyer, and others on ESPN and NFL network working that Hype machine. OU needs to realize putting their face out there on things like this is huge in the eye if teens. They are driven by these media outlets. I will say this last year they seemed to do more of that but they need to be on there and talking up what they have accomplished not just be on ESPN for the big games we lose. Work the Hype. A&M and Oregon and Baylor have mastered this process.
I think beer sales all over the stadium is needed. That and nachos supreme. That’ll bring in some revenue.
Well, as Jordan Esco wrote regarding recruiting a couple of seasons back, very little about recruiting makes sense. Best comment I’ve ever seen on the subject. Its just a rollercoaster ride. Keep your sanity.
Now, for my low-value snarky comment, at the piece on Jaylon Lane’s bad news please see my link to “Love Rollercoaster”, via YouTube, by the Ohio Players circa 1975 hosted by Wolfman Jack on network TV’s “Midnight Special” pop music show.
I have toured facilities at OSU, Texas, and OU. I agree that they are different but the quality is top notch on all of them. And Headington Hall is amazing. I was blown away on my tour through it. That being said I think our weight room could use some work to catch the other powerhouse programs, that is our one weakness. But the trophy room at OU is unbelievable. And for a lot of kids that means more than wear they shower or hang their pads up. You walk around the facilities and their are streaks and broken records and all americans and top draft picks EVERYWHERE. I mean the walls look like a collage it is so packed full. So IMO I think it is part of the equation for kids but I don’t think its a very big one at all.
Think your comments echo K’s and are close to the mark. Other than the weight room, which ain’t bad, OU is on par or above with almost any other program and ahead when it comes to dorms. And only a handful can match or exceed OU’s trophy room. Plans are in the works to upgrade the football facilities. The tangibles are there. But lMHO it goes deeper. Somehow, the OU staff is not connecting with some of these kids. Maybe the kids want to be ‘courted’ and OU is about being forward and to the point, which isn’t a bad thing. It just isn’t going to work with all kids today. But the ones it does work with will be solid, team first players that will sell out for the team at crunch time. And those are the guys this staff wants and will get over time.
The jaylon lane commit to osu hurts a bit, but if ou lands ross and mbanasor is anyone really going to remember that? Or is anyone going to care that lampkin decommitted if we land the kid from Canada?
I know most don’t think ou should settle for top 15 ranked classes but top 15 is not that bad for one and two the schools finishing above ou in recruiting are either sec schools or schools with equal tradition and better recruiting territory.
I agree it’s a long way off till February. Maybe it’s just the concept as to how Settle (OU #15 on his list) and Lane (commits to OSU). Seems they intentionally dissed our program for whatever reason.I appreciate Super K’s insight on issues at present time. It just seems that OU recruiting is a step behind at present time. I read somewhere that Texas San Antonio is ahead of OU recruiting at present time. I’m too impatient and that’s a bad thing in this recruiting world. I just wonder if OU should do something different or just keep making offers?
I agree they’re behind but I think ou takes a different approach one that doesn’t reach players who think they’re super stars at the age of 16 (not a big deal IMO). Lane may have really like osu more than ou. And for settle I’m wondering if something rubbed him the wrong way like stoops not being present for his unofficial visits? Like with torrance Gibson which Jordan retweeted a story where torrance said it bothered him. As far as rankings ou would be in the top 20 right now if they didn’t have to 2 decommitments.
I’ve been thinking about this as well and wondering how active Bob has been during the recruitment process. Torrance Gibson showing up here to greeted by basically nobody is absurd.
I mean at least have an Adrian Peterson or McCoy or Bradford in town for some sort of fundraiser event like auburn tried to do with cam newton.
Zach you and DCinAZ are right on. Where was Bob Stoops when these athletes come to Norman on their own dime?
As I recall, he spent nearly the entire visit with Heupel and also met Gundy. Stoops was on a planned vacation with his young family. From my perspective Gibson needs to get over himself.
F**k the rankings and please excuse my expletive. The guys who produce those don’t coach for a living. I trust the evaluations and decisions of Stoops and his staff more than I do some “recruiting expert” whose job isn’t on the line if they’re wrong. The key is where we rank in the polls at season’s end.
Behind others, yes, but close to norm for OU. Commits, going back, by May 1:
’14 – 4 (picked up 4 more during May)
’13 – 3 (picked up 3 more during May)
’12 – 3 (picked up 1 more during May)
’11 – 7 (picked up 4 more during May)
’10 – 6 (picked up 3 more during May)
Thanks for the info. This is the 1st year I have followed recruiting this early. I have been an OU fan since ’71, but I usually read the paper to see who signed LOI. I’ve got to practice more patience, or so my wife tells me. It looks like OU does pretty good during May.
And you’re right re: Mbanasor, Ross or any of the 1/2 dozen Cali CBs OU is recruiting. It’s just another body blow coming after 2 decommits and the low placement by two top-rated players, Gibson and Settle. It opens up doubts. As far as total commits, OU is right where they always seem to be at this time of year: 3-5 heading into summer. Would rather they come in slowly and are solid than deal with the de-commit thing.
I agree about the facilities not being that big of a deal. Most teens right now (basing this off of kids I go to school with or know) seem to like what’s trendy, swag, winning, and some other things I don’t understand. Manziel’s mouthy-attitude is sadly popular, as well. I don’t know about the kids who actually have a chance at being a college athlete at a big program; it’s possible the perspective is different. Just my 2 cents.
Hasnt anyone ever taken a poll amongs recruits as to what factors are the most important and then put them in order for instance #1 location #2 liking the coaches #3 facilities #4 glitzy uniforms #5 tradition etc etc etc. If not, this really should be done. At least that way you would know where to put your focus and $$$$ on the higher priorities for these recruits. It seems to me that this information should be very basic and available.
I’m sure they would be all over the place and really end up being even. The thing is figuring out what type of kids fit the system and weeding out the ones who don’t. To me if settle put out his top 15 with ou at the bottom, just to say he was upset about something then if I’m montgomery I wouldn’t waste another text or call to the kid. When I look at the Gibson situation he’s actually been honest about how he felt about stoops not being in Norman for his visit but he didn’t put ou at the bottom of his list. That tells me he likes ou and that he’s not seeking attention.
I agree that across the board it would be pretty even but I wonder if OU could hand out a form to potential recruits that was all about general info NAME ADDRESS HIGH SCHOOL PHONE NUMBER but then sneak in a “Rank the Most Important to YOU” section
__Location
__ Coaches
__ Facilities
__ Uniforms
__ Tradition
__ Winning
and let each kid rank what is important to him! That would be a great start in setting up his recruitment!
This would need to be done in a scientific way, but it’s possible – in an anonymous way.
The problem is that ___ ‘Money on the side’, ____’Girls’, and ____ ‘NFL Career’, ____ ‘Want to play with Brother’ all need to be choices too.
What it gets down to is: Every recruits situation is probably different. I don’t think we can do anything about a lot of those choices.
If winning and tradition were below facilities and Unies then OU and Bama wouldn’t be top 5 programs
If Stoops knew Gibson and Settle were coming to visit OU why would he not be there. If I were a national recruit from out of state and paying my own way I would like a courteous handshake or something from the head coach.
I’m not going to pretend that I was some big hot shot football recruit, but I was recruited for a sport not as popular down here in the south. My family was not “financially gifted,” or so you could say. As an 18 year old kid, who didn’t have all the nicest things growing up, facilities and sense of wealth mattered to me. While it most certainty is not always the case, wealth is how we usually apportion success in America. I assume many of the kids we recruit have the same feelings.
I think a lot of this goes back to the recruits moving to the middle of Oklahoma. For anyone who’s moving from Cali or Florida, it’s a huge difference living in OK. LJ Moore is a prime example.
McNamara struggled with it as well and wanted to go back to CA too. I think that’s a maturity problem, more than an Oklahoma problem. I don’t think any of these kids accept scholarships to OU under the impression that OK will be like CA in any way. They take visits here before they sing on the dotted line.
Being granted a full ride scholarship to a prestigious program across the country only to get there and cry into your pillow every night about homesickness cuz you miss your mommy is pretty weak sauce as far as I’m concerned. You can skype, tweeterz, and text with your mommy and friends back home every night for all I care, but wanting to quit and throw away that opportunity because you just can’t fit in to your new surroundings is kinda pathetic. If you’re not any tougher than that, you sure as hell aren’t tough enough to get on the field here.
Well this is just coming from a guy that just started following recruiting a few years ago and to me the problem boils down to one simple thing – THE FOOTBALL BRANIACS! Over the last few years I would always here about a kid who was offered by OU or visited OU but never heard in communication or REALLY how serious the kid was about OU in the first place. But because of this web site we know EXACTLY what the kid thinks about OU, we have first hand info on how the kid feels about OU, or JUST HOW HIGH HE IS ON OU ETC. It is almost like we get to know the recruit personally and then we find out he chose another school it is gut wrenching. Probably why a lot of folks think Jordan is a Debbie Downer (Double D) because he has so much time, energy, and a personal relationship with these kids it really sucks when then choose somebody else. I LOVE THIS SITE AND COME TO IT 10 TIMES A DAY AT LEAST but it has made recruiting a lot more emotional for me and I’m sure some of you too!
Here’s a pretty good article that touches on the whole “facilities” aspect and it’s pretty illuminating. It’s worth observing that as we sit here right now, OU is getting their tails kicked on the recruiting trail by the three BIG XII programs that recently, and massively, upgraded their facilities (OSU, Baylor, and T-Tech). And, we just lost Jaylon Lane to OSU this past weekend. I think facilities matter, and when these kids tour these three other schools and then come to OU expecting to see something even better and it’s not there, it puts off an impression.
https://oklahoma.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1586623
Oregon has finished 16, 22, and 26 in the last 3 years of recruiting. They currently sit at 36 on Rivals’ Team Rankings. It’s not like they are burning up the charts because they built some nice facilities.
Shows that the flashiness didn’t win everyone over. I can think of many of their defensive nfl prospects over the last several years just jordan and his coach passed on him to take a sooner. And without looking I would imagine it’s tough for them to recruit offensive linemen I can’t think of any 300+ pound guys wanting to run plays every 20 seconds.
2003 changed my view on recruiting. OU football is on a major roll, we just signed the #4 class. I was excited that OU was top 5 in the recruiting world. Can’t miss class, studs with more stars than Hollywood. Then reality hits and the majority of these kids left and became the worst recruiting class under Stoops.
I don’t care about stars anymore. Look at the draft, they take talent and it doesn’t matter where they played. HS is like College as there are finished products but they don’t get better, they just stall. I firmly believe Stoops and company have the right people in place to recruit the right players. We will always miss some due to facilities, swag, playing time, whatever.
I think facilities always help but don’t dominate the decision. I don’t think there are too many AD’s better than Mr. C so I think whatever they come up with will be 1st class and best for OU.
It’s anyone’s guess as to our apparent recruiting issues, but from my [limited] vantage point there a number of variables. OU is not the only program to lose commits, but it does seem we are losing at a faster rate than other programs.
I feel like OU is caught in a grey area. We aren’t an “up-and-coming” program with a new coach like A&M, Baylor, Texas Tech, Tennessee, Arizona State, or UCLA where we can say “come be part of the turn-around.” We don’t have hundreds of uniform combinations or over-the-top facilities like Oregon or OSU that can appeal to recruits looking for that shiny object. While we’ve won Big 12 championships, it has been a few years since we’ve been in the national championship game. The SEC has such a strong record they can say “come here and you’ll be in the division that plays for it all.” We seem to be like Miami or Nebraska who everyone wanted to play for in the past, but now isn’t viewed as a top 5 program.
I also think part of it is the Big 12 conference. It has lost its luster vs. the Pac 12, SEC and even the Big 10. I just don’t see kids dying to play in the Big 12. And, if they do, they want to play for the team that seems hip, cool, even trendy.
Recruits are athletically gifted kids who are young and native. Many have never ventured far from home, may come from financially poor backgrounds, and may not place a high emphasis on academics. Some are looking for the best opportunity to get drafted while others are just looking for a chance to play/start at a Division I program. I think OU is going after both which makes it tough sledding. The pitch to a kid who would just love to have the chance to play is far different from a nationally rated recruit with an entitlement mentality expecting to start day 1. Just my $0.02,….
We fans have the memory of a goldfish and a lack of ability to look at the bigger picture. We’re upset because we lost a verbal commit to a DT and CB. So…
Austin, Green, Sanchez (probably not for long), Taylor, Windham, and Thomas. These are the current players. Add in the one verbal we have now and the many we’re still after.
How many do we need? 2? We have one already and after PJ and Langley. Ykili, perhaps, too.
Same with DT. Many act like losing a verbal commit (for now) means we’re doomed. No. Orso, Romar, Phillips (not for long, though), Wade, and Walker. Add in Overton and the other’s we’re after.
How many do we need? 1? We have one already. 2? Still time to get another.
I think too many overrated the afterglow effects of one good win against Bama. That was one win. We need to beat the “big boys” more often than that [I’m looking at you, Tennessee]. When the recruiting season gets into full swing (it is, now) recruits will forget about that one big win and will be fully engulfed in the here and now; all of the coaches, phone calls, trips, and promises.
So not worried about the “state of OU recruiting.”
Great points. I’m not sure though that the safety we have a verbal from will stay a safety. To me when I watched his film he looked like he lacked speed but he had great size I would see them trying him out as a striker type of guy not sure if he has that ability.
Not to be obstinate, but if we just need to beat the big boys more often, how does Tennessee haul in top class after top class? They can’t even make a bowl game, yet elite talent flocks there.
Tennessee has six national championships, 102,000+ seat stadium and it’s a very attractive place. I can see why recruits would want to go there. They’ve been down for a while so they can promise elite players early playing time. The problem I see with them is the same problem I’ve seen at tejas. They recruit stars and don’t know how to develop them. As far as beating the big boy’s, it was huge beating ND and Bama last year but losing to Baylor and tejas (both in a state we recruit in heavily) hurts us a little. I don’t think recruits pay much attention when we beat the Kansas teams or ISU, WVU, TCU, or early non-conference opponents but if you beat the teams that are talked about on the national shows, especially the teams that are also on the offer list, it makes a big and lasting impression. Not claiming to know anything about how kids think now days but that’s how I see it.
Great insight. For me if I was a high school kid I would want the promise of early playing time and knowing how I was when I was younger I wouldn’t take much advise I would always hear it and be like yeah whatever so even if someone is telling these kids early playing time isn’t everything, I doubt they would listen. But really linemen even if they look great on film need a redshirt year to get college level strength and conditioning and learn a bit also. Sometimes early playing time can stunt growth of players.
I will disagree about the top talent flocking there. The performance on the field suggests they were/are not that good. Rivals team ratings (as if that means anything, but people seem to like it so whatever) show that OU is, on average, more highly rated than Tenn. consistently over the last 5 years or so. Last year they got a few people. Most of those 4 and 5 stars were from Tennessee. Perhaps it was simply a big year for Tennessee HS football.
I can accept that the coaches they’ve recently had have been awful. Fulmer lost his way; Lane Kiffin is one of the worst head coaches in college football…ever; And Tyrone Willingham; Dooley and his magic orange pants destroyed the culture of Tenn, along with Kiffin; Maybe Butch will turn them around.
Tenn. hasn’t really been good since T. Martin. Nary a recruit knows who that is.
Someone can sell a recruit a bag of goods that they’ll start yesterday.
So, did Barry Switzer enjoy the advantage of all new facilities when he hauled in outstanding recruiting class after class after class…?
No. Barry enjoyed the advantage of no scholarship limitations, and no internet.
I’m not worried…at all. This kind of thing has been going on for years, the difference is we now see everything in real time as players talk to each other on social media and we have the brainiacs feeding us inside information. In the early days, only the coaches new what was really going on and the typical fan heard of an offer on occasion but generally only heard of commits near signing day. We just signed a dang good class and I expect the same when it’s time to sign the next one. Let’s all kick back and enjoy a cold one.
Thanks for saving me the time…salute
Salut! Oh wise Ray, the bearer of Common Sense 🙂 Thanks for talking some off the ledge my man…
yup. Many things, especially those involving strategy over a period of time, do not respond well to micro scrutiny on a moment by moment basis. That sort of evaluation may be valuable, but only if seen in the entire context of the whole.
Amen to that!
When kids are picking schools partly because of sporty new uniform designs, you can bet facilities are making a huge impact. There is simply no way we should be losing so many recruits to the likes of OSU and Texas Tech.
The vagaries of 16 year olds’ decision making processes are, thankfully, not my concern. When I picked a college, my affinity to the local NBA team actually played a role in my decision.
You want to go to a school that WINS, go to OU. If you want to go to a “pretty” school, then go to the Univ of Virginia.
I know there’s an argument that there is no reason to be concerned due to the fact that the program is right where it is last year and the year before. That to me just says complacency. Obviously there is more to recruiting than just facilities, I think conference association has just as much, if not more of an affect on a recruits choice, along with coaches, family, and geographic location. That said, if you think of one of the first things a recruit and his family is exposed to on a visit is the facility itself, not only that but it is consistently with them during their tour. To them, this could become their home away from home, so if they aren’t sold on it’s quality it could impact a decision quite a bit, whether you like it or not.
With that, it isn’t just isn’t a just a ‘build it and they will come’ scenario. I believe there is just a much a responsibility to market a facility as you would the brand. An easy way to do this would be to take a similar approach that Tennessee or Oregon did and get it out on the the internet. It wouldn’t cost much at all (for the frequency), great way to pull interest, and everyone uses the internet now, embrace it as a tool, not a crutch.
Examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw4OdUaVmEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xSlBX32jx0
OU’s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J-NK3FbeKQ
It sure couldn’t hurt for OU to get some attractive video’s out there in the world these kids live in everyday.
And some turkey legs. :}
Season starts in 110 days.
At some point you look in the mirror and you’re no longer as young as you used to be. Stoops has been top tier for a long time. It’s great to see stability at a program but kids like new and shiny and Stoops might be the victim of his own success. Some recruits might see Stoops and Oklahoma as his older brothers’ team. He wants his own thing. Just like when you play a song you liked from a decade ago to a teenager today, they roll their eyes and laugh. Alabama is the new, OU hasn’t won the NC in 14 years, that might as well be hundred years to a 2015 recruit.
I think the new coaches are helping the program and another big post season win on a big stage will be fruitful. OU needs to stomp FSU in the NC game and the floodgates will open.