Does The OU Program Have A Talent Problem On Defense?
Posted on: December 23, 2014
Image via balleralert.com
There seems to be two narratives currently circling embattled OU defensive coordinator Mike Stoops. The first being those who still believe he can recapture the glory days (or at least something resembling that) of his previous stint in Norman. These same people are those who are quick to defend Mike for having to rely on young(er) players and cover up for the deficiencies of his predecessor/s.
The other group believes that after what we saw this past season, or maybe even the past couple seasons, the game may have passed Mike by. If you’ve heard his attempts at an explanation in postgame meetings with the media following any one of OU’s four losses this past season, frankly it might be hard to argue otherwise. These people are tired of the excuses and are clamoring for the days of OU defenses that intimated opponents. That dictated to an opposing offense what they were going to allow them to do, not vice versa. These people are tired of ‘bend but don’t break’ passive approach to defending teams.
I mean if you really look at it, both groups actually want the same thing. An OU defense that reminiscent of those Mike was fielding back in 2000-03. The only significant difference, really, is one group happens to be more patient than the other.
But what’s preventing him/them from getting back to that? What has led to this defense going from 24th nationally defending the pass in 2012, to 30th in 2013, to 114th(!!!) in 2014?
The perception seems to be that it couldn’t possibly be a talent problem. After all, this is still the University of Oklahoma. And while the non-sunshine pumpers amongst those who cover and/or follow recruiting would admit things have slipped at least some, most still seem convinced talent isn’t the issue. But is it?
From 1999 — obviously Bob Stoops’ first year in Norman — to 2008, Oklahoma had 14 players selected within the first three rounds of the NFL Draft.
William Bartee (2000, 2nd)
Torrance Marshall (2001, 3rd)
Roy Williams (2002, 1st)
Rocky Calmus (2002, 3rd)
Andre Woolfolk (2003, 1st)
Tommie Harris (2004, 1st)
Teddy Lehman (2004, 2nd)
Derrick Strait (2004, 3rd)
Brodney Pool (2005, 2nd)
Dan Cody (2005, 2nd)
Dusty Dvoracek (2006, 3rd)
Clint Ingram (2006, 3rd)
Curtis Lofton (2008, 2nd)
Reggie Smith (2008, 3rd)
From 2009 to 2014 — which amounts to a little over a full recruiting cycle be it under Bob, Mike, whoever as this isn’t just on one guy alone — , that number is two. Just two.
Gerald McCoy (2010, 1st)
Jamell Fleming (2012, 3rd)
Look, I’m certainly not a coach (current, or former) or an expert on all things X’s & O’s, but even I can see a pretty disturbing trend there. Whether it’s recruiting, poor evaluations, a lack of player development, or all of the above….I don’t know. I’m not in those meeting rooms or paid a six/seven figure salary to be able to provide you with those answers. That said, I don’t think I’d really need to be to see things are not trending in the direction you’d like them to be.
You can make excuses about how difficult it is to defend Big 12 offenses. You can make excuses about the youth of the secondary. You can continually tell me players need to execute better, or coaches need to coach better. But at some point it’s about results. Plain and simple….results.
The only question, in the ever-demanding ‘what have you done for me lately’ profession that is CFB coaching, is how much time you’re afforded until you are held to the standard that, ironically enough in this particular case, you helped establish.
133 Comments
I will admit that I’ve been one of the “not enough talent on the roster” guys since McCoy left. However, this year’s defense is talented enough to be better than what we saw in 2014. I have to blame that (atleast in part) on the coaching staff. I was disappointed to watch young players like Ahmad Thomas and Steven Parker fail to improve in pass coverage as the season wore on. They both showed some promise in run support but I have to question our coaching staff’s ability to teach coverage skills? Sanchez seems to be a good cover guy, and Colvin was one of the best, but outside those 2 players who have we had in the past several seasons that could lock down a top tier WR?
Personally, I hope Stoops brings in a DB coach that can help with coverage schemes and techniques that bring the secondary back to elite status.
I agree about Thomas, who I think regressed and perhaps got more and more lost as the season wore on, but disagree about Parker. I think he started tentatively but as a freshman, I thought by the end of the season, he was up to speed with the defense, terminology and felt more comfortable that he could play and compete at this level and speed.
Everything I saw from Thomas suggested to me he needs to play closer to the LOS as an in the box LB type player. He looked like a developmental LB prospect more than a free safety. Parker to me looked like a free safety learning his trade.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Parker will be a great player at safety. His inexperience as a true freshman was to be expected. However, I didn’t see anybody in OU’s secondary (outside Sanchez to some extent) locking down opposing recievers in the final 4-5 games of the season. We made freshman QB’s for Tech and Okie State look like seasoned starters. Part of it is a lack of pressure, but its hard to gamble by blitzing when you don’t have confidence in the guys covering and making tackles in the secondary.
Hard to dispute facts
I think there’s certainly an argument to be made, and the list you posted is telling, but I think there are other things that should be considered. Of those that were drafted in the first 3 rounds on the first list how many actually had NFL careers or weren’t busts? Off the top of my head I can think of Roy Williams, Tommie Harris, and Curtis Lofton that were starters and had lasting impact. For the second list McCoy is obviously an impact player, so I think it’s one thing to be drafted and another thing to actually perform.
Part of that is the system he plays. We’re not going to be putting tiny LBers in the NFL in the early rounds and that’s four positions on the current defense. That pretty much leaves DB’s and DL as our best NFL talent possibilities. Colvin would’ve been a first rounder for sure had he not blown out his knee. Where we’ve really struggled in getting NFL level talent is at Safety and along the D line. We haven’t had any dominant D linemen or DE’s here in years. Shipps last 2-3 classes were stocked with highly recruited guys that just turned out to be big time busts and we haven’t recovered from that fully yet. Phillips will go in an early round but that’s about it.
Can’t have five guys in secondary who are underclassmen and not expect a problem. And B12 isn’t a league where front 7 can affect as much with pressure b/c nobody is putting a statue under center and taking a 7 step drop.
This year’s defense is suffering from absolute failure to recruit DBs in 2011 and 2012.
I think we’re still getting top caliber talent, I think the problem is our staff not putting players in position to success to the best of their abilities. The bright side is that should be able to be fixed easier than getting better talent to come here.
The recruiting rankings do no appear to be an accurate indication of the current roster.
I didn’t go back to 2011 or so but….
Did too many of 4 & 5 star guys we sign have character issues, or some issue?
Were other schools were rather cool on them, but OU signed them, then they were gone for one reason or another.
? ? ?
..
Agree about talent drop off over the past few years but that appears to be going in a better direction. Out of last years defense probably have 2 for sure 3rd round or better guys in Phillips and Stricker and if Sanchez continues develop he is a maybe along with a guy like Tapper, even Frank Shannon could have a monster year and get into that debate! OU surely focused to much on Offensive recruiting and let the Defense slide a little bit (ok a whole lot)!
Of course the answer is a resounding YES !!! There is a talent problem on defense. Case in point the secondary; when Sanchez is universally considered the best DB on the squad, you know there is a ‘talent’ issue….Sanchez would have had a hard time making the 3 deep secondary of the 2001-2005 Sooners. Those teams featured DBs who could / would tackle and take your head off ; the 2014 secondary either couldn’t / wouldn’t play close enough to the LOS to tackle anything till it was 8-10 yds downfield…..talented players make most any scheme workable …. there is also a talent problem on offense …QB & WR…..some of the issues revolve around today’s athletes being different from 10 yrs ago. some is simply the fact OU recruiting has deteriorated and the squad has far too many marginal talents ….some of the problem is the staff is older and less able / willing to fight the hard recruiting battles day after day, year after year.
im agreeing with Stephen Dale? WOW.
LOL!!
His writing is more palatable when it’s not a single line of troll text. Actually makes a good point
You make a decent point about the hitting of the secondary, but I would say Julian Wilson qualifies at least in that respect. I would also point out, though, that big hitters was what was needed then whereas defenses now are pretty much forced to place a premium on speed and ability to cover. The game, in that respect, is just different from what it was.
Agreed. Give me secondary guys that can cover and tackle. Big hitting is nice, but not as necessary.
Aaron Colvin was a 1st to 2nd round talent before his ACL injury and he’s been playing like it since he’s returned from injury. Was a huge loss for our D this year. Just sayin he should be an exception to that first 3 rounds mark you set.
Fair point. But it’s not like that tips things in the other direction. 14-3 isn’t really that much different than 14-2.
Maybe I’m dense but if it’s a talent problem then that means we aren’t recruiting the right guys which, in turn, is a coaching problem. However, if it’s our scheme then it is also a coaching problem. So the way I figure it, the defense’s poor performance is, quite simply, a coaching problem and the coach heading up the defense is Mike Stoops. In the time he has been the DC, we have gone from good to bad, so the problem is kind of in your face, but I don’t expect brother Bob to dump him.
You aren’t dense. You are spot on, sir.
Thanks! Very kind of you.
I tend to agree that we aren’t recruiting the right type of guys in the secondary. I understood MS saying he wanted bigger corners to match up with bigger receivers. But bigger corners just aren’t as fast as smaller ones. Give me guys who can run with the best of them and form a shield over the WR’s any day. I think that is where we are missing it. Press cover guys are desperately needed.
Recruiting is dependent on too many outside factors though. Hurting OU, in recent years, has been lack of star players coming out of our state, the rise of teams like Baylor and TCU in Texas, and the rise of the SEC and their increased recruiting in Texas.
That is why I make the comment, “college football is cyclical”, like, all the time.
Just b/c OU coaches aren’t able to sway some of the studs they are recruiting out of Texas and other states not named Oklahoma, doesn’t mean they are doing a poor job. Sometimes, no matter who/how OU recruits a kid, given other factors, he simply isn’t coming to OU.
Agree. But just as we must acknowledge the rise of other schools, we must also recognize the steady decline of our program. If we can see it, so can prospects.
Sorry….but results? Seriously? Like whose, pray tell? Someone show me one team in the B12 whose D is getting it done. One.
How about Schneider and KSU who gave up 30 (would have been a lot more if not for a truckload of Sooner mistakes) to a mediocre OU offense, 41 to TCU, and 38 to Baylor?
How about the Baylor D who gave up 58 to TCU, 41 to WVU, and 46 to Tech? TECH!
Or how about the vaunted Gary Patterson D that has anchored TCU for so long who gave up 61 to Baylor (worse than our D), 30 to Kansas (yes that Kansas), and another 30 to WVU to say nothing of the 33 they gave up at home to that mediocre OU offense. And by the way, I am personally convinced TCU and Baylor would score a bundle of points on any team in America.
Any others? Show me one team in this league that is consistently shutting opposing offenses down. Hell, show me one team in America that’s doing that. Even, the vaunted Kirby Smart gave up 44 to Auburn, and I do believe a team that’s near and dear to all our hearts did score a time or 2 when they faced him to finish last season. If his D had to play a team like Baylor every week, he’d probably be looking for a new job right now.
I apologize for the exasperated tone, but IMO these complaints border on the shrill and nonsensical. I remember all too well all the voices screaming about how Coach V sucked and needed to be fired, and how Mike would come in and save the defense. Now those arguments look downright comical. Let me repeat what I have said a million times: NO ONE is going to come in here and shut these offenses down. NO ONE! Every one needs to get comfortable with that idea…..or arrange to have the OU D go play in a league where they don’t play offense…..like the SEC.
Well stated, fans are a fickle group and rarely take a fact-based approach to their opinions.
That’s a pretty broad brush you’re painting with, man. That list of players drafted is exactly that, A FACT. Now it’s up to you to take it (and whatever other info you should choose) and form your own opinion of things, but what you see above in terms of the data is presented is an indisputable fact.
You’re correct regarding the NFL numbers, I’m just not sure it has much relevance to the theme of fielding a quality defense. OU has more than enough talent on defense but have serious issues regarding assignments on a play by play basis. That problem is in part on the players and also on the coaches. MS tends to complicate his schemes too much for the expirence level of his players. In my opinion, he’s not a bad coach nor are his players lacking in talent but they at times are not on the same page.
They used to say BV’s defenses were to complicated too. Players make plays.
And people never run out of excuses! Yeah, I remember them saying BV’s D was too complicated and Mike was going to come in and simplify it. Except now, we’re doing the same things scheme-wise that got BV run out of town.
…to where he now has the #1 overall D in Amercia…..strange how that worked.
That number one defense is based on total yardage allowed per game. Not points scored per game. The tigers were very good on defensive scoring ranking #6 nationally. They allowed 12 fewer TD’s and 11 fewer FG’s than did the Sooners.
It’s certainly not the end all-be all, but it’s a pretty damn good indicator.
Wow! You just scorched some sides! I brought this up to Lehman and Devorcek and they agreed.
Let’s hope you are proven to be correct in all the bowl games. It will take all the big 12 beating their opponents before everyone will be convinced of this. Sad but true.
Agreed. Meanwhile, if the SEC loses all but one of their bowl games, they will still be heralded as God’s gift to CFB and ESPiN will continue to sing their praises as though no one else in the country plays real football. I don’t think that would change even if the B12 ran the table.
I’m not big on the “total defense” stat, but given that’s where Clemson is ranked No. 1…I’ll play along.
Texas is No. 26, TCU is No. 35, KSU is No. 37, Baylor is No. 41, OU is No. 54. Those I guess I’d point to all those teams being better than OU, at least statistically.
And I’m not sure what’s “shrill” and “nonsensical” about pointing out a fact, i.e. OU not putting defensive players in the league for the last six years.
I’m not sure where anyone has said the standard is to post a shutout every time out as you seem to be screaming about. It’s about being successful, whatever that means (w/in reason, of course) with regards to the points on the scoreboard.
Oh, and if you want to pump up the SEC defenses b/c they don’t play any quality offenses, you probably shouldn’t then contradict yourself by using Bama giving up 44 to Auburn just a couple of sentences prior.
It may seem nonsensical to you, and I’ll admit it’s somewhat obtuse on my part, but it’s about the perception (probably a better word for it, but that’s all I got right now) of OU being a dominant defensive team again. Which doesn’t equate to them absolutely having to be Top 5 nationally every year (although that would obviously be great). So much as it is avoiding the appearance of being completely incompetent, like the Baylor game.
First, I’m not screaming about anything. I have been listening to this tiresome whining for years, and now it is simply beyond old. I have apologized for any exasperation in my tone as a result
.
As for contradicting myself, I can point out that there are a few offenses in the SEC that generally play well on offense, as I have many times, while still maintaining that the SEC as a whole plays on a lower level. In fact many have made that argument for several years now including Bob Stoops, who just made the point this last off season on ESPN.
Second, as many have pointed out – again including Stoops – the nature of offense in this league is different. Period. Complain all you want about how that is excuse making, it still remains a fact. I reminded folks a few years ago, when it was Venables head they were calling for, that Mike Stoops defenses at Arizona couldn’t stop walking traffic at Wal Mart. Like the B12, the Pac 12 had also developed higher scoring offensive schemes while the Big 10 and SEC remained largely the same. In response, I was roundly criticized for selling Mike short – that he was the HC and not able to focus on D, that he didn’t have access to the same caliber recruits, etc. I am simply repeating now what I said then: No DC is going to shut the offenses of the B12 down, and yes that is what a lot of our fans are screaming for – otherwise, they say we are no longer a “championship-caliber team.”
This defense has issues – I understand that. But how many times have they been put in impossible situations by our offensive turnovers and/or 3-&-outs? How much do our fans look only at the final results when looking at, say, Baylor, yet have an entirely different standard for the Sooners? I maintain that some perspective is desperately needed here……and I’m pretty confident I’m right.
Given that our offense scored plenty of points per game this year, but the defense couldn’t hardly stop anything, i’d say the amount of times the offense put the defense in a hole was a lot smaller than the amount of times the defense just gave little resistance.
The bottom line–Jordan’s original point–is that OU does NOT have a championship caliber defense. OU is a Ferrari of a program, and it should have one. It certainly should have a better defense than Baylor or TCU, but it doesn’t. That is unacceptable. That’s more than “just a few problems with the defense”. It’s a major problem that will require major changes to fix. It starts with getting better talent and evaluating talent better, but requires something we haven’t seen in a while–competent coaching.
Sorry, but no. The offense has put this D in the hole more times in the last 2 years than you seem to remember. Our offense has had a big problem with what I’ll call Jekyll and Hyde syndrome both years. It is primarily the play calling and qb decision making. They’ll look brilliant one week or even one series (especially when Perine is carrying the ball) and then look completely incompetent the next.
The pick-6’s this year have been ridiculous. And Heupel’s love affair with the pass has almost certainly cost us at least 1 victory – TCU would be my pick – and nearly cost us another (Texas Tech). The turnovers and 3-and-out’s (Anyone remember OU/Texas this year?) have been a chronic problem despite a stout O line and a solid running game.
As to the point about having a “championship caliber defense”, I will simply repeat the question that I asked before: Show me the defense that will come in and shut these offenses down. Both Baylor and TCU are recruiting at a far higher level now than they did just a few years ago, and both are far better teams that IMO will cause problems for anyone they compete against. The defense has issues to fix, certainly, especially in the secondary. But bring in Kirby Smart, if anyone can, and then watch Baylor, TCU, and even OSU (most of the time) continue to put up points. Just like when we had Venables, a new DC ain’t gonna fix the problems.
not sorry. yes, yes JB, you got it.
While I don’t necessarily disagree, if the offense doesn’t toss two pick 6’s that scoring wise go against the D, we likely beat both TCU and KSU. So there’s that.
Perhaps you should consider the point of Jordan’s post, and most of the fans’ concern over Mike’s defenses, before classifying it as “tiresome whining”. That point being:
Regardless of how you get there – talent, coaching, whatever – you can’t come in 6th out of 10 teams defensively and expect to win.
If TCU and Baylor and Kansas State, etc. can get enough stops against the same offenses to pull out the win, then OU sure as hell better be able to as well.
Ok, my apologies for my choice of words. This to me is part of a larger conversation we have been having for quite some time, and seems an almost exact reflection (in tenor at least) to the conversations we were having about Brent Venables a few years ago.
Fans will have concerns (some will border on suicidal) even if our statistical rank is higher but we still are giving up large chunks of points. I think we all realize that.
So, for now, I will just content myself with saying no matter who they bring in (if in fact Bob ever has what it takes to replace his brother) the defense will struggle against high powered offenses like these.
Time will tell.
The reality is that Venables wasn’t good enough. Mike so far hasn’t proved to be the answer either, but that doesn’t suddenly turn “we should’ve kept Venables” into a legitimate argument. Venables had the benefit of one of the best offenses in the history of the game, and still couldn’t get enough stops.
Mike has Heupel’s schizophrenic offenses to contend with. But that doesn’t excuse the fact that he’s flat not getting it done. And that makes all the fan complaints very legitimate, regardless of how incorrect they might be as to the reason.
Some might complain that the defense is giving up too many points if it continues…but I didn’t hear many of those complaints in 2008 when we were racking up 60 points per game. I think we all are nostalgic for the old days of tough defense, so yeah it was annoying. And there was mention of it, of course. But it didn’t reach a fever pitch like now, except against Texas. There were some complaints after the OSU game, but no one was calling for Venables’ head.
Which means that winning cures all ills, pretty much. So…win the games we’re supposed to win, don’t get blown the hell out, like against Baylor, contend for NATIONAL championships, and I don’t think too many people will complain about how many points get put on the board. Alabama allowed 44 against Auburn, but you don’t hear anyone complaining about it, because they won.
I want Mike to succeed, and I want Bob to succeed. I hope they figure it all out and stay another 10 years. But right now, there’s just no excusing the product on the field. In the meantime, guys like Jordan give fans something to think about by trying to at least understand the problem. Nothing wrong with that, and certainly not “tiresome whining”. In a way it’s cathartic. Fans can all “grieve” with him as we all try to wrap our minds around it.
Just my opinion.
I agree that what we are getting is not good enough – I have been saying that for years, and I believe Bob has been complacent for quite a while. I also agree I miss the old days of hard-nose D, but I am forced to recognize offense in this league has changed dramatically. As I said before, this ain’t the days of I-formation football anymore, and as such defense has to adjust. I don’t have a problem with complaints about performance in general, but I do object to how far some fans seem to take it (Mike’s just not good enough, time to hit the road, etc.) I also maintain there is no DC that’s gonna get it done here. If anyone thinks there is, I’d love to know who it is.
Brent Venables is and was always better than his critics made him out to be. That’s why Clemson forked out so much money to lure him away. As Randy White stated, fans are fickle. We always want more and better – perhaps that’s not always a bad thing. But it also means fans are too often unrealistic.
As for Jordan, I like Jordan’s posts and I agree with him 99% of the time. I am not taking shots at him, and I don’t think he needs defenders. I am quite familiar with his thoughts on these things, and he has a legitimate point of view; I don’t dispute that. Jordan and I were both part of a similar conversation several years ago when the subject was Venables, and, IMO, the reactions by some fans at that time against Venables were often overblown.
Fans often have a bad habit of treating results as though they exist in a vacuum. Appropriate context (i.e. defending against B12 offenses is vastly different than defending against, say, B1G offenses) is rarely applied. We had a lot of people then who believed Mike was the answer and are now ready to kick him to the curb also. This to me is overreaction on a grand scale. I guess the bottom line for me is I’d like to see a little better sense of proportion…..and for fans to be a little less reactionary.
Offenses in the Big 12 have always been way ahead of SEC. Look at what OU did, the 4th best team in the B12 last yr, the weakest season ever for the B12, and w/a FR QB who was starting his 3rd game ever, annihilated Alabama’s D. Manezel, a FR, beat Ala @ Ala and last yr scored 42 against them. Other than those 2 teams (OU & A&M), Auburn scored 28 in regulation at home, LSU 17, and NO OTHER TEAM SCORED MORE THAN 10 pts against Ala. I’m just saying, let them only have one week to prepare for Bradford, for McCoy, for RGIII, for Dalton, for Weeden, etc, etc, week after week after week, and SEC won’t look so good on D either. With only one week to get ready for them. How many SEC QBs are making it to the league, BTW? It’s QB play that matters more than ANY OTHER POSITION on the field.
I look at the “Sooners in the NFL” post you put up each week, and would have to say that we are putting some players in the NFL. Maybe not the first 3 rounds that you have denoted in this post, but most of those players were drafted at some point. It seems like I see more guys playing on Sundays from OU than I have in the past.
His point was, when we had a truly great defense, those players were top picks in the NFL draft. We have some players who are making it in the NFL (most of our best NFL performers are on OFFENSE anyway), but aren’t top picks. We need to get back to producing top caliber NFL draft picks on defense again if we want to be at the level where OU should be. We aren’t there now…quite far from it.
Out of the list Jordan posted only three have really had significant NFL careers. The rest were gone in three years or less. This is a weak argument. Being a high draft pick is not necessarily an indicator of talent. In a given draft some teams are not picking the best player available. They are picking according to need. Some NFL teams don’t pick defensive players in the first three rounds. So it is possible that some of OU’s defensive talent was passed over due to needs of the teams drafting. Tony Jefferson went undrafted and he is starting! That’s all you need to know.
Being a high draft pick is generally indicative of a player’s success at the collegiate level, though.
So Colvin and Jefferson did not have successful college careers?
Generally was my qualifier, your sample size is extremely small, and Colvin’s injury bumped him from a 2nd round selection.
Granted small sample size. Nonetheless the lack of talent theory does not wash in my view. The fact that OU since 2009 has produced more NFL players who are getting playing time is an indication that we have enough talent.
College career with combine results. The pros want to quantify everything. Bad combine results equates to bad draft results for the player.
It is persumed my many the primary reason Jefferson was not drafted was a very slow 40 timr (due to injury) at the combine. He had been projected to be a 3rd to 5th round choice but the 40 time was so slow it raised a red flag and no one wanted to chance a draft choice on him with questionable speed.
I think you are right. Hurst, Fleming, Jefferson, Colvin, Carter, McCoy, Alexander, McGee, Walker, David King, Lewis, Nelson, Lofton are all in the league and most are starting. Draft position is not always indicative of talent. Some NFL teams need offense in a given
draft and pick offensive players in the first three rounds.
Interesting…because WVU shut down Baylor this year, Okie State did it last year, Iowa State, Texas A&M and oSu the year before that, TCU, OU and Illinois the year before that…
Good points and I mostly agree. That said elite defenses in the pros and college with elite athletes still give up plenty of yards to high powered offenses (inevitable) but do NOT give up proportionate points. The three areas that elite defenders limit are YAC, long plays, and red zone conversions. Reference LSU against WVU and Oregon years ago and UF against us in 2008 (though if we had Murray that game…). TCU is a great defense but not composed of elite individual athletes. I think we have younger but better talent than TCU’s defense by comparison so there is something to be said for the coaching I suppose.
If you look at the reported 40 times for the recruits listed by the four recruiting services it would seem to confirm that TCU places more emphasis on speed than does the Sooners. This is perhaps the result of them taking a lot of lessor recruited skill players and converting them to other positions.
While lacking in offense until this season it has always seemed to me that the frogs had more overall defensive speed than did the Sooners and this year their WR’s and QB definitely had more speed.
Since has the University of Oklahoma used other teams in its conference as an EXCUSE for ineptitude???
The point, quite simply, is I don’t see a single defense in America that would stop the offenses were playing. That fact should carry a little more weight than it seems to with some.
The talent isn’t what it was ten years ago, but 114th in the nation is MAC territory and we certainly have more talent than that. The NFL list also doesn’t include guys like Colvin, Hurst, Jefferson, and Nelson who have been playing well in the NFL, even if they were not drafted high. I don’t care if Deion Sanders, Darell Revis, Ronnie Lott, and Steve Atwater are in the secondary, if you allow a team a 10 yard cushion and they know you are going to let them have it, they will take 8 yards everytime. OU hasn’t recruited all that bad, either. TCU always puts up a good defense but they rarely have high profile recruits.
On the flip side of all this, we also need to look at those really good players OU has had on D in the Stoops era and where they came from. On the list above, there are 5 LB. Of those 3 are Oklahoma kids, one from Texas, and one a JUCO. Oklahoma has produced exactly 2 4* and higher LB recruits in the last 6 years. Akem from BA last year who went to Okie Lite, and Ronell Lewis in 2009. It is a lot easier to convince a kid from Jenks (Calmus) or Ft Gibson (Lehman) to play at OU than it is a kid from Mississippi or Louisiana. IMO, much of the OU success was a direct result of having high end talent from the immediate area.
This is a good point. I, mean assuming there has been a talent drop off, it seems to have coincided with Bob Stoop’s statement that OU is going to recruit nationally. May be we should emphasize Tex and Ok again.
I seriously think that players from this area who are Sooner born and Sooner bred will do better than players from abroad. I think they would play harder and leave their hearts on the field for OU while some others might not give quite as much. Not that the others would quit or not show effort, just not have that same heart.
I think it is unfair to argue that because OU has had only 2 players drafted within the first three rounds 09-14 that there is a slippage in talent. There is a lot more to being picked in the first three rounds than simply talent alone. An NFL team may need offensive players and hence they would by pass a defensive player in that scenario.
Defensive first round draft picks over the past 5 years:
2014: 18 of 32
2013: 19 of 32
2012: 17 of 32
2011: 16 of 32
2010: 18 of 32
That’s 88 defensive players taken in the 1st round vs 72 offensive players taken.
So, 50% or more of the first round picks are on defense. If you look at the drafts during those 5 years, the most drafted position every year is on defense, with defense taking up no less than 3 of the top 5 most drafted positions every year, and often 4 of 5.
For comparison, let’s look at the number of defensive players taken in the NFL draft during Stoops’ first 5 years:
1999: 15 of 31
2000: 14 of 31
2001: 16 of 31
2002: 16 of 32
2003: 18 of 32
That’s 79 defensive players taken vs 78 offensive players in the first round.
Statistically speaking, it should be easier to get drafted in the first round as a defensive player now than it was during Stoops’ first 5 years yet we were getting more early round draft picks on defense during Stoops first five years.
Your argument that the NFL some years doesn’t take many defensive players is incorrect, at least in the past 5 years. They just aren’t taking many of ours early in the draft…for good reason.
Talent??? We were supposed to have one of the best defensive teams in the country this year. How about scheme? When your db’s are 5-10 yards off receivers, how can they compete? We are not an aggressive D as we rather rush 3 and have our best pash rusher be in pass defense half the time. I’m sick of these excuses we give for the coaches. Plain and simple Mike’s scheme sucks. We make an average QB look like Tom Brady. Clemson’s walkon will have a career day-book it
While I do lean toward your view, MS did say that 70% of the time Striker rushes the QB. He also said that might be “too much.” See the Tulsa article.
You should add Aaron Colvin to the second list. He would have been there without the injury
I don’t disagree in the slightest that he w/h/b pre-knee injury, but ultimately he wasn’t.
Jordan, check out leathermeck1061’s comment. Would enjoy a response if you have one.
I posted one.
Yeah I read it. Some good points there. The most important stat is points allowed. OU gave up 26 I believe. Too many. Since 2011 Baylor is averaging close to 40 points a game against us.
I believe AC was a 3 star safety out of HS. He may be pro bowl material next year.
At this stage of Aaron Covin’s career talking about him being pro bowl material is way way premature. The first thing AC has to do is work hard enough to make the roster again, much less starting and making the pro bowl.
While I agree somewhat. Do you really think Colvin is going to have trouble making that roster?
As I was reading Jordans post an interesting thought struck me. As we know MStoops had lost his position as the head coach at Arizona. Basically he was jobless. Yes there were rumors of other schools being interested in him as a DC but nothing concrete as far as we know for sure.
So I’m sitting here wondering if Bob Stoop’s thought process was not to have Mike as his head DC but more about him just giving his brother a job, fully assuming that Venables would stay on as the Co DC and be, as it were, the brains of the outfit. Why is it that Bob and Joe C fought so hard to keep Brent V even knowing that they would have to shell out double the dollars for the DC position? Could it be that they knew that ( as Jordan said ) “the game may have passed Mike by” and he would be more of a figure head?
Either way now OU is painted into a corner. There is no way that Bob gives his brother the ax no matter what results he gets. Its his brother!
Of course this is pure speculation on my part but it has to at least give one a “hmmm” moment.
When they were “co-coordinators” before Mike left, Mike was still the DC who ran the defense and came up with most defensive game plans. He was the “brains” as you put it.
OU didn’t fight as hard as they made it sound to keep Brent Venables. That was a sham story to save face for BV who was either being demoted OR was encouraged to look elsewhere for work. But BV was a friend so they made up a good story for him and anyone paying attention noticed it after Bob was caught lying about the situation.
The defense slipped consistently (especially passing defense) under BV, with one uptick in 2009. Mike was brought in to take over a faltering defense and make it what it was before he left the program. Bob went on multiple radio stations the week that Mike came back. Bob called into WWLS (even though Bob repeatedly says he doesn’t listen to sports radio or read the newspaper) when people were talking about BV’s demotion. He put the spin machine on full blast and said BV was ecstatic to have Mike back and they were all one big happy family and there were no problems whatsoever. He said he’d just come back from a recruiting trip himself and ran into Mike & Brent who were on their way to the airport for a “joint” recruiting trip. I flipped stations after that over to KREF, and within 10 minutes, he called into KREF and told the same story about running into them while they were heading out to recruit together.
We later found out that was a GIANT LIE. That weekend, Brent took a plane to Clemson to interview for the CU DC job. It wasn’t the hunky dory scenario Bob claimed it was, and within days, BV was named the DC at Clemson. But the spin didn’t stop. They claimed they “moved mountains” to keep BV on staff. Right. Do you honestly think OU couldn’t outbid Clemson for BV if they wanted to? Logic should tell you the answer to that is NO.
Purely speculation on my part as I mentioned.
That being said if Mike were really the “Brains” of the defense then he must have left said brains in Arizona. Truly, is there another DC in the entire country that would have made absolutely zero adjustment and not even TRIED to press the Baylor WRs in the second half of that game? Virtually handing the Bears the game by giving them a perpetual 10 yard cushion. Mike seems to play under the fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on you and fool me three times shame on you theory. If you read his interview with Hoover pretty much anyone can see that we’re not dealing with an intellecutal genius here.
As for your comment on “Do you honestly think that OU couldnt outbid Clemson for BV” Dont forget they had to pay two DCs not one as Clemson did not to mention the fact that according to everyone involved they tended BV an excellent offer which most DCs around the country would jump at. I hardly think all of that was just posturing.
Agreed on Mike…I don’t know what happened to Mike as a coach, but you are right…whatever he had is sitting on a shelf in Tucson somewhere.
Respectfully disagree on BV…OU has more money to throw around than Clemson, especially since we are one of the few self-sustaining athletic departments in the country and Clemson is not. Sure, we’d have had to pay for two coordinators, or at least the wealthy donors would have to. I think they’d pony up the money if Bob asked them to. I just don’t think he asked.
I’d be willing to bet they’d buy out Mike’s contract too if we wanted to bring a big name in. Of course, I could be wrong. I’ve been wrong before.
In an interview last week, Venables said the same thing–that he had been very excited that Mike was coming back, loved working with him, and that his leaving had nothing to do with Mikes’s return and everything to do with a big opportunity for himself career-wise, and was therefore a tough decision. talked about accidentally running into a tearful Mrs. Castiglione at the airport, and about texts with B. Stoops while in a layover at the Atlanta airport. “I almost turned around,” Venables said.
I can tell you all that this is a true story!!!
BV got 1 mil, one of if not highest paid DC. He doubled more that at OU. OU wasn’t going to lock up 1.7 on co DC’s.
Good article. Obviously we have been low on talent the last few years. Thanks for giving us the cold hard facts.
NFL draft position has a lot to do with success on the field. Tony Jefferson is starting on one of the better defenses in the NFL. He was undrafted. Clearly talented enough.
I’m iffy about the nfl draft. Everyone knew Tony was a 1-3 round guy had he stayed. Same goes with Aaron Colvin. Yes, the slam dunk players are not abundant but talent is not an issue.imho
What a ridiculous statement!!!
What part? My point is that you cannot use the first-round as a basis for the talent. There are a lot of guys that were solid at ou that we choose to throw out since they don’t fit this demographic? Hurst, Jefferson, Carter just to name a few. And yes, I think Jefferson goes in the first 3 rounds if he stays a year. Colvin was eating people at the senior bowl before his injury. We are not missing talent at OU.
Totally agree. However, if it is the case that OU is not recruiting well or not make correct evaluations we would agree recruiting changes must be made correct?
Absolutely. Looking at last and this year’s classes, we are bringing in really good guys so I think we are on the right track.
Don’t you think that Stoops does evaluate well, but he has been so slow at pulling the trigger BECAUSE he evaluates so well that he misses out on some big-time talent that he would otherwise get? KSU does it that way (Stoops’ way); they evaluate very, very well, but they have to b/c they cannot get the top talent. But there is still A LOT OF TALENT out there that coaches miss. Only problem is, at OU when you wait too late, you miss out to UT, USC, Ala, etc. At KSU when you evaluate well and offer late, you are doing so with more knowledge that that guy is good. Recruiting has changed and I’ve noticed Stoops has as well. He used to never offer a junior or soph it seems. Now he does regularly. So his recruiting philosophy has definitely changed. KSU’s still has not. They cannot and must not for them to be good. I’ve talked to some JC and other coaches that have told me that OU coaches spend more time watching praciices, watching their film than any other coaches from any other schools. I don’t think that has changed; I just think they are having to pull the trigger earlier. Also, OSU and TCU get a lot of thugs. If you only knew. All schools do at times (even at church out of a 100 boys you will have some problems), but OU, UT, etc, can be more selective than OSU, TCU. Believe me, some of the guys they recruit are VERY GOOD football players and OU/UT/etc know it, but they also know they are thugs (e.g., Winslow, Tyreek Hill, DeMarco Bledsoe, etc, etc.). To compete with OU/UT/etc., they have to recruit them. OU/UT usually have good reasons not to even talk to these guys. A cancer can destroy a program, too.
Thanks for the info. Perhaps it’s my imagination, but I feel that OU is often slighted by the recruiting services and ESPN. UT gets a huge headline on Jefferson and OU gets a small one for DeBerry. Checking the current rankings in combo OU seems to have the eighth highest star ranking 3.5 average. So, I guess whatever ESPN says needs to be measured against the average of other schools.
His fallure to get drafted is purported to be because of an extremely slow 40 time at the combine. It apparently created apphrension on the part of many teams to spend a draft choice on someone without adequate speed.
I’m in the group that says there is a lack of talent AND poor coaching.
Agree with this.
Agree. OU has not recruited/evaluated well for several years and those primarily responsible were summarily dismissed. There is obviously SOME talent at OU though. It’s easy, based upon numbers/stats/draft to say not, but guys like TJeff &KStills would beg to differ. With marginal talent there is less room for error with the coaching and schemes. Can’t ‘out athlete’ so become more ‘scheme oriented’ to try to make up for some of the lack. Coaching becomes even more important. Again, small margin for error in a league which has some of the best offenses and best QBs year after year. It’s no longer OU-Nebraska and the 6 dwarfs. More competition for recruits and on the field from Baylor, TT, TCU, A&M along with Utex not to mention sec sec sec. Better evaluation of ‘marginal’ recruits needed. Narrow margins = close games: 8 pts separation between 8-4 and 11-1. So, ‘yes’ ultimately need coaches who will spend time evaluating and recruiting the best athletes and then putting players into a scheme the coaches know and believe in and coaching these young guys to play in that scheme. OU has done neither lately, switching schemes offensively and defensively and not knowing or believing completely in what they were doing and not having the best athletes to play. Easy peasy.
Totally agree
IF there is a lack of talent, would that not be on the coaches? Montgomery and Coach B are into their second year of recruiting, and you can already see improvement. Mike & Kish are in their 3rd (even though they got in late in ’12) and had to start a bunch of youngsters. Problem with Kish & Mike is the LBs and DBs should’ve improved over the season. I understand Mike had to do things to protect the LBs and Safeties in pass coverage but maybe a change in scheme is in order – if they haven’t “gotten it” by now. Those are my thoughts from the outside looking in.
Very few high school kids hitting the D1 level are good enough to be NFL worthy. It takes a lot of hard work to grow into that type of player. It really takes a lot of player development. OU, historically, has recruited well but not ‘shoot the lights out’ well. The difference maker at OU has always been player development. Look how many times Texas had higher ranked recruiting classes only to get their butts handed to them in the cotton bowl. THAT is what I think the problem is. I’m not sold on a lack of talent. I just don’t see improvement as the season progresses and year over year like I used to. That’s on the coaches but, to be fair, you have to have kids who are willing and able to put in that hard work and improve. We’re not close enough to know what’s behind it but that’s my two cents for whatever it’s worth. Recruit your butts off! Get the most talented kids you can find! But use that raw talent as a foundation, build on it, and do it better than anyone else in the country. Stoops and Co haven’t forgotten how to do that I promise you, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the complacency that we’ve all sensed for awhile now isn’t going to be quite as prevalent after this season. I could be wrong but I sense actual pressure now, not a lot, but it’s there where it wasn’t before. Talent coming in from high school isn’t going to make you a top NFL prospect. It’s what you’re able to develop into while in college IMHO.
Bobby been sleepin
As the king would say “its not about the xs and os its the jimmys and the Joe’s”
Plenty sooner talent in the NFL and most of those 1st to 3rd round guys from
2000-08 were busts which you should write an article about that(did stoops coach those guys up in college so much above their talent to be drafted so high?). Be proud of the fact there are a lot of sooners not drafted highly doing well in the nfl and ease up a lil bit.
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208798453
Y SEW ANGREE
When MS got hired a second time I was thrilled. But I also thought about his blowout bowl loss to Nebraska then OSU in ’09 and ’10 in bowls. Aberrations or no, it was concerning given that he had plenty of time to prepare. Perhaps even more concerning, he “lost” his team in 2010 at the end with a number of consecutive losses. I saw the same blank frustrated stance on our sidelines unfortunately this year.
I’m no expert but MS’s schemes are simplified and rely on plus athletes which we don’t have in the secondary (I suppose everyone could be successful on D with plus athletes). Sanchez has the instincts of an all american but not the physical attributes. I think we will be better next year though. I’m more concerned about our O line and QB in 2015 honestly. Ironically, despite the 3-4 being designed for the Big XII, I think our D would have fared pretty well this year in the SEC (weird).
I think we also need to temper expectations with recruiting. Football is now a business more than ever before. Teams in general that are perennial contenders in this era need 1) a large TV market (Texas), or 2) a hotbed of talent in their backyard (Alabama, Florida schools), or 3) a billionaire benefactor (Oregon). This is why Nebraska will imho NEVER be a top tier program again (maybe Penn State too) and why USC, Texas, and Notre Dame, with all their bungling will continue to come back. In this context, we are a high level second tier or lower top tier program (not in my heart or in tradition of course) and that is good enough to win some championships with the right staff and some breaks. Finally, for an immediate fix for recruiting, we could use some more diversity in our coaching staff.
good post.
Would we be having this discussion, if the three games we lost by 8 pts, turned around and were wins? I am not a fan of Mike but it wasn’t entirely his fault. Take away the pick 6’s and the colossal boneheaded decision by Bob to kick to tyreek hill again. Who’s to say we wouldn’t have played Baylor better if we had gone into the game undefeated and with more confidence. We have to have a great Quarterback who can get the ball to his receivers and make good decisions. I would like to see what a top notch defensive coordinator would do with the kids we have. I am beginning to think there might be an IQ problem in Youngstown. Just my 2 cents.
I think all of you make great points. To me, the Big XII is flashy, lots of points, the greatest show on turf (or natural grass), but defensively stymied for those reasons. We put a defense on the field that is a force up front with a killer rush, some big linebackers that can crush your QB or cover your receivers and crush them as well, and some shut down corners, not much offense happening and we own the league. Once that’s done, bring on ANY other conference for the playoffs and we’re playing for a NC. I know it sounds easier than doing, but this can happen with the right minds and talent. Anybody with this?
Just for perspective, Jordan Phillips and Charles Tapper are top 3 round talents, and Jordan Evans and Charles Walker at developing at a trajectory that points to top 3 round selections as well. Way too early to tell for Steven Parker, but he has the tools and size.
Striker? Who knows?
Not sure how I forgot him. Before the season I would’ve said Geneo, now I’m not sure.
I think the big deficit we’ve had has been in the LB position. OU has been a factory for top LB. Just in the Stoops era that you mentioned, they had Rocky Calmus, Teddy Lehman, and Dan Cody. Those guys weren’t just great college LB, they were intimidating LB. Players were afraid to be hit by them. We’ve had good LB since then, but we haven’t had any that players were just straight up afraid to go against.
If what leatherneck is saying is correct, then the criticism of Mike’s post game comments is misplaced. His comments reflect the fact the pendulum swings between periods where the offenses have the advantage and periods where defenses dominate. In each case the other side eventually catches up, but in the meantime there is immense frustration when the attempts to do so fall short. By speaking the truth about that, Mike opens himself up to being criticized for not having a pat immediate answer to the problems that defenses in general are facing in the Big 12.
I suspect that part of the problem is that the margin between being very successful, and being mediocre, statistically speaking as well as in terms of wins and losses, is often very small, even though it may appear otherwise. One or two players, and sometimes just one or two plays can make the difference between looking like a hero or a goat as a coach.
Yup, the ball isn’t round … and sometimes bounces crazy.
Just like in war
If the college football game was still the EXACT same as it was in the early 2000s, I would then agree that there is a problem. It’s not really even close. Everyone is better, doormat teams aren’t doormats, and people’s perspectives on what makes a kid talented has most definitely changed IMO. Recruiting and talent is definitely not the problem. According to what we’ve heard around here, I’d assume Bob is preparing to get rid of what really is the problem during this offseason.
In my opinion it is both talent and coaching and neither is as bad as it seems by itself, but when put together it looks even worse.
Coaching wise I don’t know what is wrong, but I do know that there have been obvious issues from the first year Mike got back. He 7 DB lineup was terrible and we all could see it. The 8 yard cushions we could all see. The times where we only send 3 and drop everyone in the game rather than attacking like at Tech early. Also why have played guys in past Taylor, Austin, and Byrd and then we just put them on the shelf and never play them again.
Talent wise let’s be real Philips is no Harris, Dusty, or McCoy. Our LB’s are not Lofton, Lehman and Calmus. At safety right now the talent is not even close to the “old days.” Thought I think we all agree that Parjer came on and Sanchez is really good. Either way talent is not as bad as some would say.
One other thing. Maybe what we are missing is just motor and attitude. I remeber guys like Austin English, Trent Smith, Johnathon Nelson (remember when he not once but twice ran people down from like 60yds to save TDs?), and Dan Cody who were team first and very highb motor guys. You get high motor guys in practice and it changes practice and it certainly changes game effort. Maybe we need some motor and attitude guys. Not to say we don’t but I don’t see it like the “old days”
I’ve been thinking of the issue of momentum. We typically use that term regarding the ebb and flow of a particular game. But I think it applies to a season and beyond.
We went into 2014 thinking that we had already made the playoff, and just needed to work to win it all. We played the first few games with confidence and played well (albeit against weaker competition). But when we stumbled in a game we should have won, that confidence was shaken. Another loss and the confidence was totally gone. We had lost momentum; we had lost our mojo. That’s why I believe soonermusic and others says the margin between winning and losing is small. The season could have gone totally differently with one or two plays going differently against TCU. By the end of the season, our secondary had zero confidence. They were playing not to get beat, not to dominate. I don’t think talent was necessarily the issue at the end.
Momentum also goes across many seasons. In the past there have been times when Little Brother was close in talent to us, but because of many seasons of getting beat, Little Brother just didn’t believe. They had no momentum. We saw the same thing with Baylor; we dominated them for years until they finally beat us, and now they have momentum in the series.
2014 stunk! No doubt! But I really think we could just have easily made the playoffs. And I think there is reason for optimism in 2015. If Monty can re-build the line, watch out! Can’t wait till August!
I would agree to a certain extent, but you will still have a hard time convincing me that we don’t have more talent than K St. yet they continue to play better defense than us so I will say IMO we are under achieving in the coaching aspect. our schemes are old and the players are not buying into them. Our coaches need to put our players in a better position to succeed.
Another doom and gloom piece from JE. Shocking.
Why did you even click on it then…just seems hypocritical. “I get offended when someone writes something negitive, but then I am going to take time to read said negitive piece.”
Didn’t read it. Just saw title. Always negative stuff f this guy. Don’t need to read it. Tired of it.
Do you need to borrow my sunshine pump?
Lol. Hopefully get one under the tree.
Bobby’s Crimson Kool-Aid is a great stocking stuffer too
Great lead in… That is all we all are looking for…RESULTS!!!
Last years Defense would have been an elite defense without the injuries to Nelson and Big J. This years Defense was never going to be elite and suffered from lack of talent, inexperience AND over coaching. The biggest mistake Coach Mike made was trying to keep this defense evolving and over complicating things for the young players. We can all agree the secondary looked lost more often than not, The ILBs were atrocious in both the run and pass games, and the D Line significantly underperformed. Players consistently didn’t know or do their job! That is the NUMBER 1 thing a defense must do! ALL 11 players must be on the same page and every single one must do their job. Guys had their eyes in the wrong spot far too often, tried to do too much, or just didn’t understand their assignment. Hindsight is 20/20 but I think had they kept players in their same positions as the year before(Wilson and Grissom),perfected what they were doing the year before, coached the hell out of fundamentals and effort they would have been able to play much faster and much better on that side of the ball. I say all of that to say this… There isn’t a huge issue with either coaching or talent(depth is a massive issue). The mistakes made both on the field and on the sideline are very correctable and I fully expect them to be addressed this off season.
Interesting stat Jordan…. To me where it hurts the most is at LB…. While I agree it is a bit odd that 2 got drafted in that time frame, the fact that many DL/DB’s that are playing in the league says there was talent… i.e. David King, Stacey McGee, Casey Walker …. All 3 have played in games this year…. Or even Quinton Carter, Demontre Hurst, Aaron Colvin, Tony Jefferson…. Have all played and/or started for NFL teams this year…. While they weren’t drafted high, they were in fact talented enough or they wouldnt be playing on NFL 53 man squads…….To me thats 7 guys after 2008 that make a difference int he stat and were talented enough… But where I think we can find a pretty hole is at LB….
I don’t necessarily think that we have a lack of talent that is keeping us from getting to where we want/need to be, I think that the development of of the players is a problem and I think we are missing that give it all you got, don’t settle for less than the best attitude. Whenever we’ve had great defenses, we’ve had players that fought every down, didn’t want to give an inch to the player opposite them. I want to see someone like the Boz, or T. Marshall, Dusty Dvorajek(sp?) on this team, someone with some fire in them to rally the troops and go dominate the opposing offense. We also need a DC that has that same kind of passion for the game, that expects that out of the players and coaches. Someone that goes into games expecting to dictate what the other team will or will not do and not the other way around. Until we get those type of coaches and players I don’t see us doing anything significant. You can be good and win games with talent but you can be great and win championships when you add heart/desire in the mix. Merry Christmas everyone. Thank you TFB for all the great information you guys provide on this site. I know you guys put a lot of effort into what you’re doing to get the best and most accurate news to us. It’s much appreciated.
Sounds to me people thought regurgitating a former Coordinator from the early 2000’s was the best we could do. People no Mike Stoops or for that his Brother Bobby playing cards these days. They never have been at making adjustments. There is no Pete Carrol or Belichek on this staff, these Stoops brothers are stubborn. Just go back to the lsu or usc or Boise st. or West Virginia games. And I do not care if it was Venables here alot of those times. He’s played under both Stoops Brother and was taught and nurtured under this philosophy of defense. Maybe it just so happens Clemson has allowed him to call what he wants when he wants? Clemson has no better talent that we do and If I’m wrong then the coaches who recruited the players need to be fired because they have not gotten the best out of their recruits. Mike has been here long enough! I’m a Sooner till’ the day I die but I will not support Mike or Josh any longer. I will criticize even if they turn it around for I know they will resort to their old ways when we are facing someone with equal talent or coaching!
I truly believe we haven’t had an elite linebacker for quite a while. Travis Lewis was probably the closest thing we’ve had recently, but it’s been too long since we had a true leader at the position. Corey Nelson could have been that guy, but with his injury and the previous scheme, it never panned out. Eric Striker is that kind of guy, but he’s more of a DE in this scheme. Hopefully, Ricky DeBerry will be that guy.
I also think a lot of our problems (especially in the secondary) are directly related to the 2011 recruiting class. We only have 5 guys from that class, and only a couple that really contribute.
I think we have the talent on defense now, but I think a lot of it is young/inexperienced.
While you bring up a good argument that OU had more players drafted in the early rounds during the first half of the Stoops era, it doesn’t portray the complete picture. I would argue that in the 2nd half, Stoops’ players have played more of a prominent role in the league. So what gives….
What’s interesting to note is that under Mike Stoops, we have had a year with very, very good pass defense or as we saw this year, very good rush defense. I’m not sure that the coaches have figured out a way to put both together. While talent may be a problem, coaching seems to be a larger problem at hand. Stoops has, like Venables, made our schemes way too complicated for our players. This wasn’t the case in his first two years. And, if anything, the old adage of stooping the run first doesn’t quite hold true anymore. If I have to pick, I would rather make the defense better at stopping the pass.