Big 12 *sigh* Expansion Talk, Here We Go Again
Posted on: May 3, 2016
Big 12 expansion talk….it has begun (again).
If you spent any time online Monday, it was probably impossible for you to miss the stories (like here, here, or here) written on the already beaten to death subject of possible Big 12 expansion. Yes, it would appear everyone is eagerly anticipating the league that seemingly never actually does anything to, well, do something.
Good luck with that.
The reality is **spoiler alert** the Big 12 blew it when it comes to expansion. Breaking news, I know.
The expansion window is only being propped open now with second-rate options that would do little more than equate to expanding simply for the sake of doing so. There really are no attractive realistic (key word) options remaining that would truly add value to this league, regardless of what others may have you believe.
At this point, as far as I’m concerned, adding two schools would simply be little more than a desperate attempt to delay the inevitable, i.e. the death of this league.
As to my #HotSportsTake when it comes to Big 12 expansion, it can best be summarized by the following, via the highly esteemed Urban Dictionary:
You Do You – Just being yourself and showing everyone who’s boss around here.
You can make expansion as convoluted or complicated as you’d like, many often do. But if I may borrow one of Bob Stoops’ favorite lines, ‘in the end’ it can really be as simple as just doing you.
It was that simple when Colorado and Nebraska left, just like it was when Texas A&M and Missouri did the same. And the idea that OU, even in this current landscape of CFB as we know it and, in my opinion, even with or without a partner school to join them, wouldn’t be more attractive to another conference than those four schools is, frankly, laughable.
As I’ve said previously, it’s well past time for OU to do what’s best for OU. Bonus points, good karma, or whatever for being the good soldier up to this point, but what purpose does it serve to continue putting the best interests of the conference as a whole ahead of, or even on par with, your own? Because make no mistake, they are no longer one in the same.
Case in point, this report from the Cincinnati Enquirer — conveniently enough emanating from the home of a potential expansion candidate — in which it states the belief around the Big 12 is that the University of Texas is “influencing” Texas Tech and TCU in an effort to block any potential expansion.
Again I ask, what is the point in trying to be the guy (Boren) repeatedly banging your head against the metaphorical wall with an unwilling partner (Texas) simply to save a league you’re almost assuredly better off leaving to begin with?
THEY (Texas) DON’T WANT WHAT YOU (Oklahoma) WANT. THEY ONLY EVER WANT WHAT’S BEST FOR TEXAS. MAYBE, I DON’T KNOW, GIVE THAT A TRY YOURSELF. Sorry I had to raise my voice there, DBo. But I felt it necessary to really get across the point.
If (and admittedly, that’s a big if) that Enquirer report is accurate, how that couldn’t be the final straw for Boren finally admitting the obvious and pulling up stakes would be utterly baffling to me. If for no other reason than to, ever the politician, save face publicly considering you’ve already popped off several times now about driving the Big 12 expansion bandwagon, to the point there is definitely no putting those horses back in the barn.
Not to mention you’ve already kotowed to Texas the last go-round and look where it got you. In a league many now consider to be second-tier and soon to be even further behind when it comes to the almighty dollar, in terms of per school conference payouts. You cannot afford — both figuratively and literally — to allow Texas to manipulate things yet again and maintain the current status quo.
As far as OU is concerned, I say screw Big 12 expansion. It’s time to get out.
424 Comments
Where should we go?
Hallmark channel?Well SEC.
Every school in the SEC cheats. Big time. You really want OU in that conference? Aside from “high level” football, the SEC would be a step down in every other way.
My vote is the BigTen. I love the history that Michigan, Penn St and tOSU have. Along with the Basketball powers that are Michigan St, I think I like that option the best. Overall, the BigTen provides the better academics and options in other sports, such as basketball and soccer
Not sure we meet the academic standards needed to get in there. Seriously.
OU does a lot of things right, academically. DBo’s pet Merit Scholars help this university a lot!
No doubt. That being said, I still don’t think we could qualify unless they change the rules.
Who has the better academics, Oklahoma or Nebraska?
Nebraska. Not sure it’s even close.
This. ^^^^
What does Nebraska do as a school? I really don’t know.
Very highly rated med school(which is huge) and the Hospital they are affiliated with is one of the nation’s very best. Big Ag school as well. They do a ton of research(this was the school that created the barrier used on all NASCAR tracks now to help with wrecks).
Knew they were an ag school but didn’t know about their medical school. Good for them.
For some definitions of “very high” and “very best.” I’m having flashbacks to the time someone here talked about the excellent academics at Kent St. It looks to me like Nebraska’s med school is ranked highly in select areas (like primary care), but putting it in the category of “very highly rated” would be a big group of “highly rated” med schools. And many metro areas have multiple better hospitals. It’s not that surprising since most there are lots of metro areas in the US that are more than twice as populous as Nebraska.
Nebraska’s is pretty easy (median student is worse than at OU) to get into as far as flagship universities that play major college football go, although they continue to be rated slightly ahead of OU in most undergraduate rankings. But “academics” in the context of conference realignment most often refers to grad school rankings and research dollars. Their grad programs tend to be rated more highly than OU’s, and they have much more research funding using some measures, although off-campus med-schools and ag research doesn’t “count” under some measurements.
Yeah. 4th in Primary Care. 9th with it’s PA program. Top 20% in cancer care, GI, Nephrology, neurosurgery/neurology, Urology, and as teaching hospital. It was top 50 in almost EVERY subspecialty. Only 3% of the 5000 hospitals made top 100 in any single specialty. So yeah, I’m OK with saying “very highly ranked”.
Nothing
They were an AAU research school until recently. Don’t know what happened a lot of ‘measuring’ goes on by whether or not your school is one of the 60+ AAU schools. OU is not. We meet Carnegie research level 1 status.
https://www.aau.edu/about/default.aspx?id=16710
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States
It depends on who is doing the ranking and which metrics they are using. U.S. News rates Nebraska #47 and OU #52 among public universities. Forbes rates OU at #227 (all US universities) and Nebraska #270. Kiplinger rates in terms of value with OU at #62 and Nebraska at #75. It seems reasonably close across the board with both schools having areas in which they excel. I had a hard time finding pure academic rankings, but maybe you could clue me in.
That sounds about right. I agree, you have to look at the criteria the raters use and reason they are being rated. OU and Nebraska share a lot in common.
Is about research grant money, BIG schools bring in a ton.
OU does a lot of things right, academically. DBo’s pet Merit Scholars help this university a lot!
I’d love the Big 10, but don’t think we have the academic chops to make it unless they change the rules. Competition and money wise, it’s hard to beat the SEC but I hate the SEC so…Pac12?
Hell no on the PAC 12
No way on God’s green earth would anyone want to watch OU play at 10pm Oklahoma time
Correct. I don’t want God’s team playing late at night after everybody else already went to bed.
As it happens, I agree with you. However, it doesn’t change the fact that we can’t get into the Big10 unless they change the rules. So, Pac12, SEC, or ACC? Your choice, I mean.
What are the rules you speak of? I really don’t know.
Didn’t seem to stop Nebraska.
First is federal subsidies. The Big 10 receives more federal money than any other conference. Now admittedly, I’m not sure if that’s a chicken or egg thing. Also, every university in the Big 10 is a member of the Association of American Universities, and we are not last time I looked.
They like research grants and those Institutions of Higher Education that participate. Nebraska was AAU, but lost their designation after joining.
I could be wrong, but I don’t believe there’s really any rule to change. I think what you’re referring to is the Big 10’s preference that schools belong to that AAU deal, but it’s just that, a preference. Albeit maybe a strong one, but if I’m not mistaken Nebraska has since lost their AAU status and it’s not like the Big 10 kicked them out of the league.
To Boren’s credit, I think the considerable strides he’s made, and continues to make, with regards to OU’s academic standing would definitely make them an attractive candidate for the Big 10.
Gotcha. Wasn’t aware they lost that status. I live across the river from Nebraska and knew they made a big deal of it at the time of admission.
You’re right. It was and is a big deal, I’m just not sure it’s an actual rule/requirement to be admitted to the league. But again, I could be wrong on that 🙂
It would be fun, but too much travel for the “minor” sports IMO.
BIG
SEC West is a good fit, athletically and geographically.
I doubt a single SEC West team would vote for us to join their conference if they thought we’d end up in their division. LOL!!
I know you say that in jest but I bet they would be salivating to add another national brand like OU. It’s all about the $$$$.
Actually I’m not saying that in jest. I don’t think they would want that at all.
Coaches probably do not, but the administration, donors, fans, media etc would go nuts over an annual OU vs. Alabama game, not to mention Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Texas A&M….
Well living in the SEC West, I know most of the fan base would take us in a heartbeat. Whether the powers that be would is another matter.
Why would they want that? Are they masochistic?
Alabama sees us as one of them, someone to hang out with at the club and look down at all the other miscreants that they have to deal with. The rest of them see us as those guys who always seem to beat Bama.
Simply because they aren’t all that smart. There is a reason for the SEC reputation for poor academics.
I troll the SEC Rant boards and I can confirm what you say as true.
Most of their fans don’t really believe that we would be a threat to them. After all they are in the SEC, SEC, SEC.
I know. They tell me we’d go 8-4 in the SEC all the time, Bob’s record against their teams doesn’t seem to register a flicker of thought in their minds.
Better yet, I have first hand experience. I live in Huntsville, Alabama, AKA the “Rocket City” since this is where the rockets that took us to the moon were designed.
I think the fan base of any of the Power conferences would take us. I really don’t think OU would be without suitors, should we leave little brother’s behind.
OU and KU could make a nice add to BIG and not create travel chaos. We could play OSU and UT as our noncons every year and keep those ties.
Texas probably will refuse to play OU if we left. They refuse to play A$M for same reason.
Seeya Texsa!
But, UT has been a non-con game for much longer than a conference game.
Not trying to be an arse…but… that would be a problem how? It’s a classic rivalry but I could live w/ those consequences. Big 10 makes the most sense..OU ups their academics..no cheating required..and OU rekindles their rivalry w/ Nebraska, which I always enjoyed far more…plus playing Mich and tOsu, MSU, PSU, Whiskey, even Iowa.
The UT fan base would revolt before we let our AD casually stop playing OU. Regardless of conference, we’re going to play IMO
UT fan base would revolt? Why, they don’t care. If they did, this crap would be happening.
Do you really believe that? If so … just one more reason for Boren/OU to force their hand. Roll the LHN into a B12 network for starters or OU is OUt. Am certain the ‘horns would be accepted into the B10, too, but, again… the LHN would have to go. Don’t see it happening.
Why play UT? ATM doesn’t so why load up our non conf games.
We play UT to kick their ass.
Great question. Assuming there is only going to be 4 conferences w/16 teams, they all have their pros/cons.
I’m not a supporter of moving to the bigten.
Geographical, the SEC makes sense. Also, ESECPN would love it and make their conf more powerful. With the Big Ten getting all that money, I would assume SEC will get that much or more the next go around. OU would need to get more bagmen.
ACC & Pac – travel and time change would make it difficult on travel for all athletics. However, Boren likes the Pac.
Again, great question and I’m interested to hear what others think.
Praise Texas! The revival of the SWC is almost complete.
OU moves on and UH, SMU and UTSA can join big 12. They would have their 12 schools and Texas would control everything. Perfect!
Texsa sucks,excellent read Jordan,cant agree with you more^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^upvote a million times.
Texsa sucks SEC here we come. Big 10 would be ok just not the Pac 12.
why not pac 12?
You guys need to really think about the travel. Pac12 road games would be a total beating travel-wise. SEC is a geographical fit….actual car trips.
B10 freeze your asses off.
Truly the key point in all of this to me is that every other year, when your marquee non-con match up is a road game, your home schedule basically sucks.
Because Texas is obv never a home game, your best home match up is who? Baylor? Ok State? I mean neither of those teams excite most OU fans I know.
Which to me has to be the driving factor for a number of reasons, most simple among them: (1) you have a shiny new stadium to pay for, (2) you’re never not going to need more $ from donors for the next shiny new whatever you’re going to have to pay for, and (3) people these days have more and more reasons to stay home and watch the game from their giant televisions.
If you’re not giving them compelling games and a reason/s to get up off the couch and go to your shiny new stadium, which IMO the Big 12 slate very much does not do, then you’re only going to see more empty seats come Saturday.
Switching conferences changes this, expansion doesn’t. Plain and simple.
Even as a student with the cheap ass tickets, it’s hard going to Iowa St/KState/Kansas games… along with the crap non-con game, that’s half of the schedule right there
Even as a student with the cheap ass tickets, it’s hard going to Iowa St/KState/Kansas games… along with the crap non-con game, that’s half of the schedule right there
Did home games with Nebraska, Colorado, A&M, and Missouri ever really excite people during the Stoops era?
Nebraska, because of the tradition/history btwn the two schools, was always a draw, IMO.
Somewhat, but that game lost a lot of it’s luster midway through Bob’s tenure and I don’t think it had the same draw it used to. Not even close IMO.
Only because we played two years on and two off. It was important when we played every Thanksgiving.
My guess is this would be the same as OU UT if we left, play every few years….no State fair etc.
That and because Nebraska sucked.
We are 5-4 vs NU in the b12 days. We sucked in the 90s and they were great. We dominated them in 2000’s. NU will not stay bad….
Note UT sucks and still kick our a**es from time to time.
NU will stay as bad as their continued terrible coaching hires dictates.
Moving to the big 10 nixed their inroads into texas recruiting. I dont see them ever being as good as they were in the 70’s and 90’s ever again.
Nebraska is history. Book it. Why would any kid want to live in Nebraska for a minute
6-4.
Won regular season games in 2000, 2004, 2005, 2008. Lost in 1996, 1997, 2001, 2009 (4-4). Beat them twice in the Big 12 Championship.
It’d be at least as much as a draw as arguably every other school in this league outside of Texas, IMO
CU had some decent years under Barnett
True, but that was a long, long time ago.
I think they have the potential to get back to even the McCartney days now that the PAC 12 money is coming in to upgrade their facilities and they ditched that horrible coach (Embree?)
I suppose anything is possible. Still seems like they have a long road ahead of them from where I’m standing tho.
Yea, they did. Missouri had some good teams and exciting games with us. Also, ATM beat us at their house a couple of times, once when we were #1 so I would say they had some good games. Heck, we had to go for a 4th down to win one of them.
Colorado had some good teams and they have a history.
Colorado was usually a tough game, especially there.
I would say that the 2000 Nebraska game might be the most exciting home game of the Stoops era.
That said, they wouldn’t be exciting now.
I was only able to make it to one Nebraska game in which my football coach took me. It was nice atmosphere that I haven’t experienced. I will say the blow out made a lot of people leave early so it started getting quiet after half. That was also the night Michael Crabtree scored the go ahead TD against Texas to put us in the Big 12 Championship and you could hear people yelling all around Norman.
There is only one league that would provide better “home games”, and that is the SEC. I think the Big 10 is way more probable, and they offer up, in some ways, and even worse schedule. Wisconsin? Purdue? Northwestern? Indiana? Illinois? Minnesota?
*vomit*
Yes, they also have Ohio State and Michigan, but we’d likely be on some sort of rotating schedule against both, where we’re getting a home game against them once every 4 years at best.
There are too many unknowns for me to have a completed opinion. I/we have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes, what is possible, and when it’s possible. I’m not in a hurry to walk away from the “partners” we’ve had for however many years we’ve been partnered up with some of these guys. And I still think there are a bunch of unforseen circumstances for OU leaving to any conference. I don’t think we’ll recruit Texas very well if we’re the only team that heads north to the Big 10. And don’t even get me started on the SEC and those bunch of cheaters.
I think Boren has a plan, and I’m sure he is working it. If UT doesn’t want to play ball, and OU has better options, we’ll probably know by the end of summer.
I for one prefer to stay in a strengthened Big 12. OU just made the CFB Playoffs and the bball Final 4 while playing in a 10 team Big 12. The Big 12 isn’t as “disadvantaged” as some make it out to be. Who cares if we have to go OOC to get marque home games? If we start getting those games within the league (SEC), we’d likely stop scheduling as aggressively OOC.
You lost me at “Boren has a plan.”
Boren has been damn good for OU. Is he perfect? Maybe not. But he’s done far more good for OU than bad.
Academically I would agree with you. Not so sure he has done well when it comes to managing our conference alignment issues. He appears to be trying to leverage the athletic department to further his academic priorities. While that may be good for academics, he may end up seriously damaging the long term position of the football program.
It seems Boren has been guided by 2 principles regarding expansion:
1) Being Texas’ lapdog is good for us financially
2) Academic prestige is paramount when it comes to athletic conference alignment (see? it just makes no sense to read when you condense it down)
I am a big Boren fan, but how he’s let OU be whorn’s toady and the suck-up he’s done to Pac and B1G, while ignoring the obvious fit in the SEC, has been hugely disappointing, and left OU weakened as an athletic powerhouse because of it. Oh, we’re still a powerhouse, but we’ve lost a lot compared to where we could be because of 1) and 2).
SEC is clearly the better fit. OU would have a top 5 recruiting class every year which means national title. Academically, OU is closer to SEC schools than they are to B1G (check out the ratings of the top universities). Can still play Texas in October. Imagine a home schedule of Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia while playing Texas, and another Power 5 say USC/Ohio St and with a schedu;le like that the obligatory SEC cupcake game OU v “Eastern Georgia Tech”wouldn’t reflect too bad.
That would be a brutal schedule. Heck, we run through that undefeated, they should just skip the playoff that year and crown us 🙂
But, to the point, getting those SEC teams into Norman? ‘Bama, LSU, UGA, UF–those are incredibly exciting games, any year. And even Arky, Miss/MSU, SC, those are all for the most part a step up over the XII except for whorn. Yes, Baylor and TCU are good right now, but meh–no national appeal to those games at all.
Eh, Miss/MSU, SC, Arky, UF and I dare to say UGA wouldn’t be too hard of a schedule. Although it remains to be seen how good UGA will be under Smart. Bama and LSU would be tough. Their defenses would thrash us at the line, just like Clemson did.
Like Bama “thrashed” us in the Sugar bowl? I say OU would compete with Bama every year for the title because DL/OL recruiting would be top 5…
Exactly. Landscape has changed in relation to schedule. When the King coached once in a while there would be three tough games out of 11. Most of the time OU had to beat Texas and top 2 Nebraska only and that was tough. Other years, they would play an Ohio St and a USC in addition. I welcome a tough schedule, but OU should be rewarded and not be hurt by a loss.
I disagree. He’s just a politician interested in taking more of my taxes.
Maybe in the beginning, but in the last 5-8 years, he has been a colossal, epic failure. In almost every tenure there comes a time to hang it up and recognize your best days are past. David Boren reached this plateau a long time ago.
DB does hava a plan—-a plan to milk the retirement bonuses OU may offer him to step aside sometime in the future…
Please name the two schools that would strengthen the Big XII. Note: you can only name schools that are available, ie, Notre Dame isn’t one.
Bama and USC.
What makes you think USC or Al are available or would be interested in joining this outhouse of a conference?
I was being facetious. Was actually tempted to make up a serious answer but even with all my creativity, I wasn’t able to make up a situation in which the Big 12 regains it’s prominence.
There is a credible scenario but it requires ACC to blow up with Big XII picking a few plums. It’s credible but it’s far more likely that the Big XII blows up.
Mizzou, TAMU. Oh wait, Bowsby blew that.
Mizzou, TAMU. Oh wait, Bowsby blew that.
Tell me how adding to bad teams HELPS
The SEC is not the only conference that would provide better home games, and they gave their fair share of stinkers….vandy, Kentucky, S Carolina, Miss S, Arkansas, Mizzou, and A&M. (where people are still more excited to see their band play at halftime than to see the team on the field after Manziel left). Florida’s no great shakes these days either. Does the blandest team in football aka “Georgia” really excite anyone outside of Georgia. Lots of talent every year, every year an underachievement with no significant accomplishments…
I think the Big 10 would provide better games if you’re in the same division with Ohio St and Michigan anyway, but we’d probably be with Nebraska, Minnesota, Northwestern, Illinois, Purdue, Iowa, Wisconsin. I’ve never thought of OU as a good fit for the Big 10 though. I’m still in the boat of the PAC 12. We could either go back to playing Texas every year in the non-conference OR work out an agreement to play USC every year regardless of division. USC has more history of winning championships anyway. That would be a powerhouse matchup. There are plenty of good matchups in the PAC like Stanford, UCLA, Oregon, Arizona State.
I think the sites would good travel destinations. Same with the Big 10, SEC, and ACC. They all have some great venues. I’d be happier if we join any of them rather than add a couple of schools just to be up to 12.
The expansion talk, if based on the “Big 12 having a better chance at the playoff” than I don’t want to expand. It is an idea driven by ESPN writers and other media who following the B1G commish feel that there isn’t enough uniformity in CFB. Screw them. OU went 11-1 and won the conference and got in. If we go 10-2, we won’t get in and neither will most teams since there are only four spots.
B12 can’t expand in a way that enhances its quality. I say realign the whole mess along geographic lines.
There is no strengthened big 12, therefore your whole post is false.
That is your opinion, and a lot of folks smarter than you and I disagree.
Who is smarter than me?
The sec has plenty of stinkers too. Kentucky, Vandy, Miss State, South Carolina, Georgia (when was the last time they won anything of significance?), Mizzou, Arkansas…whoopty doo.
With $100+ tickets, no smoking, no drinking, and Boomer Sooner deemed politically insensitive, the couch looks better all the time. I like the Big 10. I think OU is academically comparable.
No drinking? i downed 2 flasks worth of jack at the spring game 😛
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Lets go chant ” Bama Sucks “
Very well said..
we only thought the Big East was dead..its coming back under the guise of the big 12
Been time to leave this league since Nebbish got outta here
I think our plan right now is to hold out in a meaningless gesture to try to get into the B10 until Boren retires/dies. Then we say we are going to the P12 until we get so much push back from the fan base about 10PM start times that we end up in the SEC assuming they and the B10 haven’t carved up the ACC and are full.
What I do not understand is the constant refrain that we have to kowtow to Texas, that we can’t go to a conference unless Texas goes too. Texas screwed up the SWC. Texas screwed up the BigXII. To me, Texas is like the beautiful girl in high school. Everyone wants to go out with her but no one can trust her.
UT ran off Arky, then Aggie, now it looks like their # 1 rival might not be far behind
Texsa is a cancer.
With LHN they will go Indy if/when the B12 dies
That’s the whole purpose behind the LHN. It gives UT the option to go independent.
The majority of texsa blogger even believe going independent in today’s climate is not sustainable. They believe they will not be able to to continually get teams to schedule them at the end of the seasons when games matter most….most teams are in the thick of conference play at that time.
Notre Dame even has to play an ACC schedule plus their historical games.
Cannot agree more or uproot this enough. Their legendary ‘But…we’re texsa’ ..arrogance has destroyed everything/everyone with which they have come into contact. The bile rises just thinking about them as I type.
The point of the story is true. Time for OU to what’s best for OU.
Dadgum auto-correct
You are correct. I just pray we dont get tied to Little Bro because of the beloved state politics.
The Pokes fans I know kinda want to be out from OUs shadow…much like Aggie to UT
Aggie fans I know now (mumble under their breath) they made a mistake.
Not really. They are the same but with more money
If we went to the SEC & broke up the Big 12, it would help ATM with recruiting. What really good Texas recruit would want to stay and play for the remaining schools? Off to OU/ATM or other SEC schools
Huh? How would it help ATM in recruiting?
The TFB Mods wrote an article last year about why aTm was getting good recruits. They asked a highly touted DT; his answer was that they wanted to show the $EC that the best recruits come from Texas.
I think that may have been true the last few years but going 8-4 in the SEC isn’t really showing the SEC anything about Texas recruits.
I think it was more novelty and Texas being down than anything.
Agree 100%.
If you’re a good recruit in Texas and it was close decision between UT/ATM, most likely the kid will go ATM due to the conference instead of UT and a floundering conf. I’m in Houston and it would help out a lot of schools in SEC. Basically, it’s opens up Texas more to the SEC.
UT destroyed ATM in recruiting last year and is doing so again this year.
Hmm, if I remember correctly, OU is still in the Big 12. That said, it’s not going to help ATM NOW. I said if we leave it would.
I live in Texas and I’m involved in the recruiting scene so I hear what kids say all the time.
With the doors they’ve already opened to other big-time SEC teams in recruiting Texas, OU and UT being resurgent, and the Buckeyes and Michigan getting a foothold in the state, I see ATM getting drowned out recruiting in their own state eventually.
OU leaving the Big XII would seriously hurt texsa. I agree with you: what competitor is going to want to go to texsa when they’re not playing good teams?
One can only hope that ‘Little Brother’ has the pride to stand on their own.
They could go Pacific 16
I say look out for OSU if they are wanted. If not, sorry little bro. I’m out of here. Good luck to you.
I agree with you completely, Jordan. We’ve missed the expansion boat that would have been the rising tide to raise all ships. Texas has no intention of playing nicely. I say bolt and bolt fast.
Should’ve took Mizzous spot
OU missed the opportunity. I would stop playing this game with this league. I’m also disappointed in Bowlsby.
Me too I had high hopes.
Nobody, worth expanding for, is available..
have no interest in the big 10 on a football excitement basis……..for the big 10 lovers here’s nu schedule……..gonna get off the couch for many of those?
………http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-16/2016-nebraska-cornhuskers-football-schedule.php
Expansion will not happen unless uterus give up the shorthorn network for a Big 12 network
Don’t hold your breath.
OU needs to move to the Big 10 or $ec
Agree 100%
Should be prepared deal in hand when it comes to a head. UT ain’t backing down
I don’t understand why we can’t form a BIGXII network and leave Texas out of it to fail on their own.
Because there are only two teams in the Big XII, OU and UT, that are worth paying to watch.
This is the real problem. The SEC network is profitable because you have teams/fanbases like Bama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, etc. that prop that network up. A Big 12 network would have two even if we turned the LHN into it.
I’m fairly confident no TV exec is desperately trying to break into the Waco TV market, ya know?
Nothing good on yalls board today Tom?
Not yet, but I also just like realignment talk
Just funnin Tom.
Probably need to check with Metzker about Lubbock?
Way to generate some traffic, Jordan. Master stroke. LOL!!!
Ya, the “*sigh*” even made it more attractive to people, I guess.
…. my reaction reading the Trotter twitter …. How many of you/us have experienced the company hiring a study for restructuring/pay scales only to, after months of review, say the results are flawed and a new study will be commissioned and after 3 studies … still no action. Fully agree. Expansion only delays the inevitable as there are no good options available. Houston (further hurts recruiting in texsa; see TCU), BYU (scheduling), Cinn, Pitt (maybe the best but does anyone really care??), UCF, Tulane … GMAFB. Time to turn off the lights and … as my bartender use to say … go whoever you want, you just can’t stay here.
Agreed! Let’s get outta Dodge.
The GOR and the Big XII bylaws make leaving now financially prohibitive. Read them, if you don’t believe that.
That is becoming less and less true. As the other conferences get bigger payouts, the half of the games we get to keep (only the home games minus one belong to the conference) become worth enough to make up for the lost revenue.
Perhaps, but the GOR runs through 2025. It will take awhile before it is economically feasible to bust the GOR.
One thing your forgetting is that OU gave up it’s media rights for all it’s home games excluding the one Tier 3 game. That means that OU would have to forfeit the revenue from almost all it’s home games to the BigXII. OU would still have to pay the visiting teams. IOW, suppose OU went to the SEC and played AL at Norman. The Big XII gets the revenue from that game and could televise that game too. OU still has to pay AL.
First of all the team gets to specify which is the “third tier” game. UT has been doing this and picking one of the B12 games. We could pick the best home game to keep. So we lose the money from the media rights about $25M currently. Let’s say the B10 gets us who claims to be pushing $40M/year in a couple of years. They get the rights to all the B10 away games, plus our best home game. That should be worth a little more than half a normal share of the revenue which is awfully close to the $25M we are losing. The payout is irrelevant since that does not increase it just stays the same. You have the same expenses with now essentially the same income.
To add value, you also have the fact that the conference network might very well pick up some of the lesser games since tier one and two will have to decide what they want to do with OU vs Rutgers in their B12 market.If they don’t pick it up in one or two it becomes tier three and the conference network could pick it up.
With the money that these conferences are getting in excess of what the B12 is getting I can easily see them being willing to match what the B12 is paying for only a partial share of our games. You immediately add several top tier matchups to your media properties.
Lots of ‘ifs’, ‘shoulds’, and ‘mights’.
This is assuming the Big 12 is around.
My understanding is if the Big 12 dissolves.
The GOR is void.
In order to dissolve by vote is 8.
But we all know if OU leaves with a few more schools
Texas is alone with their allies (Baylor,Tech,TCU).. They wont be able to add enough teams to keep big 12.
Dissolution. No GoR
It’s time to go!!!
I live in Memphis, TN and listen to local sports radio a lot. The guys in town are saying thay University of Memphis is really pushing hard to get one of those spots. FedEx and Fred Smith are (reportedly) involved in the discussion as well.
So if I’m reading this correctly, Jordan is calling for an outright boycott of OU football games until we move to another conference….Tell everybody
This is big Willie thinking, but it would be cool for the top 7 of the BIG XII and the top 7 of the ACC to merge. We could shore up their football abilities and also create a basketball superpower in the process.
Ok, Hallmark channel?
Or maybe the OWN network?
I hear they have offered to takeover the rights to KU football games. Their tackles look more like hugs so they thought it would be a great way to get into sports broadcasting.
Definitely Telemundo.
LOL!!! Maybe we could air our games on Sabado Gigante?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIX2ijRr8lo
That .. and Cheryl … and snakes for sure.
Ok ,im off for meeting hope it helps get the OP up,see ya later.
Get a consultant to do it for you.
’bout time. Gotta get OP up. Hey Jordon!!! He’s gone!!!
Stay awake, pay attention, and don’t stick your pencil up your nose while people are looking.
Thers only 1 expansion scheme that works, but no one will go for it. Merge the best 8 from the ACC & Big XII. PUut WV in the acc division and Louisville in the Big XII division.
I just mentioned that very thing in a post below.
I’ve been beating this drum for a long time. The only scenario that makes any sense.
best in terms of football or overall athletic program? who do you leave behind in the big xii?
None of the options are going to force fox to rework the contract, so all we will do is take a hit to the wallet. Take 3 teams, OU leaves, and the big 12 will be back to 12. Problem solved(for us a least)
Normally, I wouldn’t feel bad for a guy who’s job is to write about OU sports. But, I do feel sorry for you JE for having to waste your time writing about this subject, again.
Ha, believe it or not I actually enjoyed this one. Simply b/c I feel like it’s from the voice of so many OU fans, rather than the same ol’ crap that’s usually written about when it comes to expansion.
Curious to hear your thoughts on what or where OU should go. I don’t mind SEC or the ACC merger. Not a Pac or Big 10 fan.
Option 1, 2 & 3 for me would be the SEC. Aside from the academic standpoint, and even that isn’t what it once was in terms of embarrassment, everything about it is an improvement for OU.
After that I could go either way on the Big 10 or Pac 12. I think from a “fit” standpoint, the former makes a lot more sense. And I know for a fact in a perfect world that’s where Boren would prefer OU be.
The ACC thing doesn’t really excite me as they strike me as a very similar top heavy league with little behind that much like the Big 12. I just don’t think merging to average leagues transforms that into one great league.
Good stuff. As for conferences, I think all conferences are somewhat top heavy?
I like the SEC first and I assumed Boren wanted B1G but I do find the ACC/Big 12 merger interesting in all sports. Basketball would be a nightmare.
IMHO:
1.priority is more money- go to SEC. Other conferences not practical do to time zone and no cultural rivalry or identity.
2. CFC – more easily obtained by status quo and quality OTC schedule such as this year.
3. Best- Texas to cooperate with Big 12 and incorporate all schools in one TV network.
The LHN pays UT approximately $15M per year. Do you think Texas is so altruistic that they would give up $15M?
They would ultimately make more by including all the Big 12 teams and negotiating money distribution between the teams.
That’s one issue. A second issue is that Texas continues to harbor thoughts of independence. The LHN facilitates independence.
The LHN pays UT approximately $15M per year. Do you think Texas is so altruistic that they would give up $15M?
If it’s money above all, then we need to go to the Big 10. I don’t want the Big 10, but it’s about to be the biggest payout of all including the mighty SEC.
That worked out great for Nebraska… SEC is the best option- all around
From a money standpoint, it is working out well for NU. But just watch, Delaney is about to get the big 10 THE biggest payout of all, bigger than SEC.
I agree the best option is to get Texas to fold ….
But they don’t call it Texas hold em for nothing.
As far as OU is concerned, I say screw Big 12 expansion. It’s time to get out.
While the rest of the post is excellent, Jordan, here’s the executive summary. This is what Boren needs to figure out.
Totally agree Jordan. To expand on your point (no pun intended) OU needs to get out while they can do it on their own terms. Because at some point, Texas will look to shop its brand. It may seem unlikely now, but wait until they get good again (God forbid) and miss out on a playoff bid because they play in a conference that is deemed inferior to others. Money brokers at Texas will then dictate that they go where they can win a natty and we would be left scrambling as the second fiddle to their “brand”.
THE PROBLEM IS OU IS STUCK IN THE BIG 12 contractually until 2025. There is no getting out at this time, even if that is the best thing for OU.
No we are not. The GOR does not keep us in the conference, it only means that we don’t get the media revenue from the tier one and two home games (minus one). As the other conferences payouts approach double the B12’s it becomes economically feasible for us to leave without taking a loss.
No, the GOR doesn’t require us to stay in the BIG 12, it requires us to give up our revenue for a term to the conference. The idea behind the GOR was to make leaving a non-viable alternative. No sane school is going to give up their revenue to a conference they are leaving behind and take that big financial hit. We can all come back from la-la land, because that just ain’t gonna happen. The big 12 is only slightly behind the big 10 in per team payout, and everyone is trailing the SEC for now, although rumors are the Big 10 is going to outdo the SEC in TV contracts in the near future. So for all intents and purposes, we’re stuck here for now.
There really isn’t precedence set in law that any of that really happens anyway.
IF OU does leave.. do you really think there will be a big 12 afterwards?
Cant be cutting checks to something that doesn’t exist..
You aren’t keeping up with the state of the payouts. The B10 just signed a new deal for half of their tier one rights for $17.8M that along with other moneys and they are scheduled to payout a total of ~$57M in 2017-2018.
http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/big-ten-schools-will-see-media-revenues-skyrocket-thanks-new-tv-deal.html
Jeeeezzzzz that’s some dough
Why can’t we negotiate a deal now for 2025? Do you not think that OU leaving in 2025 would cause the big 12 to crumble on its own with in a couple of years? Or at least open up negotiations? No way it goes 9 more years in that scenario. We are going to the SEC in 2025… now the big 12 can die a slow painful death, or we can get this over with.
That is a fantastic point, Waterhead. I hadn’t really considered that, but if we negotiate now for 2025, we could cause the Big 12 demise prematurely and maybe get out of this GOR mess.
If the Big 12 was serious and could negotiate, they should convince Notre Dame to come and BYU to bend.
The only prima donnas bigger than Texas are Notre Dame. They bring all the problems we already have with Texas and then some.
Two prima donnas balancing each other out with a hint of a wannabe(BYU) to keep it interesting.
I think contractually, Notre Dame is independent only in football. Most of their other sports teams are more or less ACC. If ND chooses to join a conference, the ACC has some sort of rights or pull to them to bring them into the ACC
The Big 12 has become the old WAC, lots of high scoring, no real defenses’. As long as we are only 10/teams, we will never get the votes or respect. Need to expand or get out. No matter the pundits, the people who vote (CFP-committee) will always use that against members and I don’t blame them. And for you idiots out there that say who? I say anybody you bring will be favored over ISU, Kansas and Tech.
Hear Hear!!
ORDER, ORDER!!!!!
Cheeseburger delux with fries and a coke please.
Why is it that every dad blame time someone mentions OU, The word Texsa is always two words behind? I remember a time when teams used to tremble in their panties, just at the mention of having to play OU. This is getting down right insulting to our beloved SOONERS. Are we really that low on the radar that we can not survive on our own? I mean come on we are the most successful team in the modern era. People should be begging us to join their league at the very least. How about wherever we go they help us pay our way out? Is this feasible? It would definitely get fans in the seats and viewers on the T.V., I know i for one am tired of the shorthorns running the show!!!!
I have a radical idea to strengthen the conference that NO ONE is talking about. Forget expansion and further diluting an already weakened conference. The solution is REDUCTION. Cut out the dead weight. Jettison Kansas, Iowa State, and Texas Tech. Schedule more OOC games against quality opponents. Addition by subtraction.
Or we could not jettison anybody and just make sure we play two OOC P5 opponents every season.
IMO Future is superconferences.
I don’t know how many long time donators and season ticket holders are in here.
But if you are..
There is no better time than now to start yelling your point across just like Jordan is because Boren is now in a corner and with the GOR becoming less costly..
OU needs to start thinking for itself and get into a Long Term Stable superconference ASAP.
There really is no point anymore being in the Big 12..
I got $5 on it. No, all kidding aside. Who better than the donors no matter how big or small to voice their opinions. Of course the big money spenders would have a louder voice. But your point does have some truth to it.
Damn, Jordan. You woke up the lurkers!
never turn down more head
ND will join a conference after the transition to only four Power Conferences and once the CRP limits participation to Power Conference winners.
IMHO:
You consider all the factors:
1. No quality teams available for expansion
2. Texas will not share the LHN with a Big 12 network.
3. OU needs more revenue to keep up .
4. SEC offers more benefits: revenue, status, geography, cultural rivalry , time zones, recruiting .
SEC is our best option!
The ACC is more likely to fall apart than add ND, IMO.
We could tear up the SEC and the drive to games wouldn’t be that bad———–
I don’t want to associate with those bunch of cheaters. Seriously. OU won’t be able to keep up unless they do the same, and I don’t want that for OU.
Aren’t we keeping up right now?
Yes and no.
Agreed, and just because they do it doesn’t mean we have to. As much as people hate to say or hear it, there would also be an inherent recruiting boost moving to that conference (without doing anything different than right now).
I don’t get why people think there would be a “recruiting boost” by moving to the SEC for OU. It had zero impact on Mizzou’s recruiting ability. It raised ATM’s profile because they’re a Texas school that recruits Texas, and UT was down, but that’s fading.
OU and Texas seem to be recruiting very well right now. I think our 17 class shows that the only thing needed to boost our recruiting was to get our act together on the field and actually put some effort into recruiting.
Having ESPN shout OU to SEC over and over would change the way southern recruits think about OU. We are not taking 5* talent from SEC country now but we could if we moved. I’m not saying SEC is the move for OU. However, it OU did go SEC it WOULD boost their recruiting.
Comparing Mizzou or ATM to OU? SEC took those schools hoping to get the big fish and OU is one of them.
Yep. If nothing else, just the Houston area boost would be significant.
Houston isn’t in the SEC and they’re killing the Houston area. They’re in an even worse conference.
Dude, you have such an issue with anyone disagreeing with your opinion especially if it gives any due whatsoever to the SEC (which BTW I can guarantee you I hate that conference as much as anyone here having lived in its footprint for many years). Sorry, but right, wrong, or indifferent that conference gets more high profile recruits than any other. It’s a fact. And please don’t give me your location speech, I get that has a lot to do with it.
I never said the SEC owns Houston. Twist it however you like to make yourself feel better, but bottom line you are in the small minority if you really believe there would be zero recruiting boost (Houston area included) if OU went to the SEC.
Feel free to have your last word after this so you feel better. Just like the WR to SEC argument you have your mind made up and you will get the last word. Congrats and later out.
JP I’m with you. Can’t see the forest for the trees.
I don’t have an issue. There’s no emotion in my responses at all. The SEC has a DEMOGRAPHIC advantage. That’s why they’re recruiting is the way it is. Has anybody thought of that?
What WR to the SEC argument are you referring too?
Lol, I know I said I wasn’t going to respond, but ya think maybe I might have thought about that when I asked you not to give your location speech???
Ok, done now, you win. Feel better? Peace.
Don’t know why you’re so nasty dude. I’m playing devil’s advocate here and my points are solid and well thought out.
well let’s see, Alabama’s had 24 2016 commits. These are from out of their conference. Almost half want to play in the SEC for bama.
4 TX – that’s close
2 from CA
1 from DC
1 from Okla
1 from NY
1 from NC
1 from MD
Right. Bama is a national brand, and they’ve been winning championships. You can do that when you’re in the middle of a dynasty with possibly the best head coach of all time.
Our recruit list looks alot like that too.
So if I understand you logic, I guess we should just stay in Big 12. There is no recruiting advantage in SEC or any other conf and games are just as good. What is everyone moaning about, right.
I’m fine with staying in the BIG XII if there are plans to expand. If not, we should bolt.
As for recruiting advantages, like I mentioned above, none of the other teams that left for greener pastures except ATM have had any sort of recruiting uptick of any kind. I think it’s short sighted to suggest A&M’s recruiting uptick was simply due to their move to the SEC is all I’m saying. I think it was more a confluence of things than simply changing the conference patch on their jersey.
Mainly; new facilities, a young up and coming black head coach, the SEC move, all at the same time when Mack Brown was on the hot seat and Texas was collapsing, and OU and Stoops had pretty much stopped recruiting in Texas and were believed to be in decline as well. This is the same situation (the OU/UT power vacuum) that allowed Baylor to rise to prominence and recruit much better as well while remaining in the BIG XII. They won back to back BIG XII titles by selling kids on UT and OU being a “thing of the past”.
Remember a couple of years ago when Ohio State lost early in the season and the B1G was deemed the worst conference in the country, uncompetitive, and there was article after after article predicting it’s eventual demise due to the rust belt out-migration? What happened to all that talk? That’s where the BIG XII is currently.
Houston has a coach who’s fearless and QB. They got a DT recruit cause of his brother – that’s it.
The Houston area is SEC – I live here and you? It’s all they talk about and if LSU offers, most are running. Houston area is neighbors with Louisiana along with most other west SEC schools. A lot of the studs playing in Houston came from New Orleans area or have a lot of kin folk over there.
“A lot of the studs playing in Houston came from New Orleans area or have a lot of kin folk over there.”
Correct. Maybe that’s why?
Sure, no doubt. Ever think of being OU’s recruiting coordinator? You got it down. Later
I’m not comparing Mizzou to OU. What I’m saying is that if the SEC was that big of a draw to recruits as people say it is, why hasn’t it helped Mizzou at all?
You say – I’m not comparing but then you compare. Why isn’t it helping Mizzou? Because they don’t have 7 natty’s along with 9 Big 12 titles along with the rest of the history. It’s Mizzou, NOT OU.
I think the coach and prez had some issues and players revolted. Not the best environment for a recruit. Don’t think their bagmen have the deep pockets as some of the others.
There are ALOT of kids who believe that that conference gives them a better shot at the NFL. We can disagree, but comparing Mizzou to us is apples and oranges. aTm is less of a brand than we are and they got a huge boost, fading or not.
I don’t disagree that we can be a recruiting power without going, just saying it only helps. I don’t see how that can be argued, but go ahead.
Recruits watch ESPN. ESPN has a vested interest keeping the SEC at the top. ESPN promotes the SEC and SEC athletes similar to NFL athletes. Recruits see that and want the same treatment, so they want to be in the SEC.
Aren’t the recruits we have now watching ESPN?
Yes, but a majority are in our backyard (outside of Bandy/Sermon)
If you think OU is spotless, you’re wrong. Every school has cheated to an extent. Some just a lot more than others.
OU and OSU in the sec west along with A&M, MizzU, Arky, LSU, Ole Miss and Miss.
sec east as Bama, Auburn, Vandy, Vols, UK, Bulldogs, Cocks and Gators
SEC will never take both Oklahoma schools.
SEC will NEVER mess with Bama’s schedule.
Add OU and one other B12 school and move Bama/Auburn to the East and BOOM, the farthest drive would be 9.5 hours for divisional games(going the speed limit of course)
If we want to strengthen our home schedule, we can’t join the SEC. That requires playing 1-AA teams and directional bottom feeders for all OOC games.
But we could add KU tech or kstate lol
bs
We set our own OOC. I’d imagine we’d keep the games already set till 2025 or near there.
If you really think about it. There is no school in America that is more attractive to joining another conference than OU
Because
1) OU is the BEST final school that isn’t locked in to a LT conference. Tradition… Coach/AD/Pres locked in.
2) We don’t have a massive TV deal
3) We don’t have insane egos or garbage
Lastly,
Blow this up..
If I’m boren..
Get Kansas/Iowa St on the phone with the Big 10… Get the big 10 to take them.
Get WVU into the ACC.
We get little bro and go to SEC..
There will not be a big 12 conference if you have half the league gone.
GoR problem solved.
Where do TCU and Baylor go? Wac
Who cares..
🙂
Prolly the pac
And Texsa and Tech. Pac 12
Pac wont even take Texas. (TV deal)
If they want the TV deal its either independent or hold Big 12 together
Texas is just playing their cards w/big 12. They’re looking around and saying, all of them are bluffing. I’m all in and then the others fold. Currently, they are not scared of the chin music.
Hahahah perfect response!
Their problem.
I think Baylor and TCU are planning to form a conference with BYU, SMU, Moody Bible Institute, ORU, Trinity, Abilene Christian, Indiana Wesleyan and Adventist University of Health Sciences.
I’m not sure, but I’m pretty sure.
lol @ the Big 10 expanding with KU and ISU. Big 10 gains nothing from that.
National championship in basketball almost every year.
KU is a commodity. ISU…
KU is a commodity with the right partner. Like OU. Big 10 isn’t going to waste an expansion spot on ISU.
I think ISU fits geo
Kansas is a huge bball brand
That’s worth something.. especially when really aren’t other FA teams they can get.
The Big 10 will pull from the ACC before they ever sniff allowing ISU in.
alright alright.. I was just saying if Texas is going to alienate itself with Texas Allies.. Then we make allies ourselves and break this conference apart.
Dissolution!
B1G has been talking to OU and KU for over a year. We’ll see if they pull the trigger. The sticking point, beyond waiting to see what happens with the Big XII, is the scholastic issue. The sticking point is not interest. There is interest on both sides.
Of course, OU will not go SEC, so it is B1G or Pac, with B1G by far the first choice, due to possible grant money.
Takes a supermajority (75%) to dissolve the conference. That means eight votes in favor. The TV networks would still own the rights to the games of the former Big XII members so the GOR survives.
I think it will take less than 8 teams.
If the Texsa schools stay with the big 12 after 4-5 teams left. What schools would they bring in to make a conference?(No teams add anything)
NCAA rules say they need 10. .(?)
GOR becoming less costly/ 5 scab teams to keep it together
the conference would def die.
I think politically, Texsa wouldn’t be associated with something that is def dead and embarrassing. (ego) They would go Independent. (ego)
Then Bay/tech/tcu don’t have the clout to keep the conference together go to PAC.
Everyone goes on their merry way.
You need to read the Big XII By Laws and the GOR.
The By Laws specifically state the conference can only be dissolved by a super majority (75%) which means eight votes.
The schools in the Big XII gave the rights to their games to the conference who contracted with the Television networks for those games through 2025. These are legally binding and enforceable contracts. Teams leaving the conference leave their television rights behind.
Suppose five teams left. Those remaining teams would get the TV money from the departing teams. Whether the Big XII would still be recognized as a NCAA conference is irrelevant since the NCAA is not a party to the TV contracts, the Big XII By Laws, or the GOR.
“Teams leaving the conference leave their television rights behind.”
Sounds like a loop hole.
All ten members signing the GOR agreed that if they left the conference, then the conference retained the television rights.
Possibly a dumb question, but is that the rights to air the game, or the rights to profits from the televised game?
Interesting question. The By Laws and the GOR are available on the web. I’ve been unable to find a copy of the television contracts. I imagine there is little difference between the right to air and the rights to the profits from televising the games. The GOR does state that the rights to the games revert to the schools at the end of the telecasts.
One last thing,
The bylaws don’t state exact amounts of revenue distribution.
All is not a amount.
Since its not a predetermined price to buyout or be penalized.
It would be arbitration or litigation to figure out the exact number to which must be paid.
1)Since the big 12 levied 90 million against Co,Neb,Mizzou,A&m and only collected 40m.
2) No legal precedence of GoR in an academic institution.
One could argue that the number would be more favorable for a school who is leaving an unfair environment.
Tie it up in court awhile earning some SEC new contract dough..
Settle
End of story.
That wouldn’t be the end of the story. Any school leaving the Big XII takes the risk of forfeiting ALL the revenue. No sane University President is going to take that kind of risk just so fans can get a better home schedule for a few years.
WV did and it’s working out great for them.
Its a right to lease the inventory. (Tv games)
It was a granted power from the schools to the conference.
Conference is given the right to lease..thus receives the check and distributes it schools.
If 5 teams left.
1) The Texsa schools would have to add more schools in order to be a conference.. There isn’t going to be 5 schools in the big 12 profiting on the others that left and competing on the field.
2) the seasons they have become wasted as no playoff committee would include anyone out of a even weaker Big 12 conference.
They aren’t going to find anybody worth the 5 that left. So when GoR does end.. They would be way behind the 5 that did leave who by then already have established themselves in LT stable conferences.
3) There is no way Texsa ego would sink with the Big 12 anyways. They would go independent once OU leaves.
Thus all would fall apart.
If OU wants to leave and says they are committing to leaving. There are other schools that will jump ship.
Conference isn’t going to sue.. The remaining teams would and the less remaining teams that stay behind the weaker the litigation becomes and more likely this is going to happen way before 2025
We are also so focused on the agreement between Conference and schools.
One forgets theres another one between Fox. Whose name is on the checks…
They wouldn’t be too happy if OU and others decided to leave and go to the SEC (espn).
Why would Fox be unhappy when they would have the rights to telecast Alabama playing OU at Norman through 2025? Why would the teams remaining in the Big XII be unhappy getting to cash that check?
Fox wouldn’t keep the revenue made from the inventory.
The contract stipulates amount X to be paid.
If OU goes to Sec and makes Y
They only pay X. Keep remaining of Y.
They don’t get to keep the revenue from the inventory because the withdrawl and buyout are based on no predetermined price. This GoR is ambiguous and poorly written
Which means..
It would be a estimated settle figure.p through aribitration or litigation.
1)The same method that is estimated on the buyout. (Final two years..
2)Not one person knows how much the GoR fee would be.
It isn’t cut and dry as you think.
3)There is no legal precedence of a GoR and a academic institution.
4)what we’ve learned from schools moving from one conference or another the actual payments have been less
They obv left it open for the possibility of ending a GoR before due date
1) no determined buyout price
2) no termination clause
3) no damages clause
No person or business enters a. contract without those stipulations Which means it can be fought in court or settled.
Link to the full Big 12 GoR
http://www.scribd.com/doc/116756116/Grant-of-Rights-pdf
Check it out.
Tell me what you think.
I’ve read the GOR and I’ve read articles (Frank the Tank) that make these arguments. I find them less than convincing and mostly wishful thinking. Even Frank The Tank has an excellent article discussing all the issues you’ve raised (link below). Problem is, as Tank puts it: “Regardless, most lawyers could probably think of numerous ways to break a GOR arrangement on paper, but the practical problem is that none of them are high confidence lines of attack. As a result, a school that attempts to break a GOR would be heading into a situation where there is unknown and unlimited legal and financial exposure, which is a horrible position to be in.”
Read the rest and tell me what you think. Particularly the part about Disney and Spiderman.
https://frankthetank.me/2013/08/08/summertime-conference-realignment-walking-dead-a-look-at-the-big-12-grant-of-rights-agreement/
Interesting article..
The punishment for leaving alone would be much greater than leaving with others. I think there are others that will leave with OU. Stability is just as important as making more money. I don’t think its going to be this year or the next. But here soon, the GOR will be worthless. OU and others will jump ship.
Take aways
1) The problem still remains that these still are public universities. Disney is a for-profit publicly traded company.
2) The impossible undeterminable variables works both ways as unlimited or very limited. “could be no exposure at all or it could be a large enough amount to literally bankrupt a school” I agree, There is no high confidence either way. It works both ways.
3) ” triple-dog-dare to schools that want to attempt to challenge it since there isn’t any reliable precedent about how to calculate damages”
Again with more schools willing to leave ^ this number would be agreed upon.. and the more schools that want to leave the more likely
GOR has no established predetermined ruling court.. arbirtraition rules.. buyout price.. and its obv created a hostile environment.
The more schools that want to leave the further the death of conference will be. As OU gets closer to leaving. I gurantee you the other schools
WVU, OSU,KU,KST/ISU will start making plans to leave as well.
When the OU shoe drops.. all of them that want to leave will do so.
Then the remaining 5 will have to fight through litigation
all awhile Save face
1) Texsa will have to be on the forefront saying the Big 12 will live..
2) Add schools in order to compete in any competitive sports as a conference
3) Try not being the laughing stock of cfb world trying to fight for a conference that is clearly dead.
Playoff impilications: if OU leaves the big 12 conference.. its a smidgen over the AAC and no undefeated aac or big 12 will ever get into the playoffs.
IF there is a will there is a way.
If a team wants to leave they can and will.
Just a matter of time
Good points. IMHO, the Big XII is a dead man walking. I do not believe it will fall over anytime before 2020. I do disagree that SEC is the best conference for OU. It’s principal appeal is the improvement of the home game schedule. I would rather see OU pursue a better academic conferenc, ie, B1G.
Its not just a better home schedule but Geographically SEC fits.
I don’t mind the b1g. More $$, academics. It could work.
We would be pretty far from Michigan/tOSU plus cold weather ball..
Regardless,need to leave to get into a LT stable conference and if we did the b1g..I’m all for it.
Oklahoma/Kansas to SEC
Iowa St./little bro to Big 10.
SEC won’t want OSU because their market is so small and overlaps with ours. Basically, OSU would take more away than they’d bring. Kansas has a decent fan base with basketball and would play nicely with Kentucky.
Spot on and SEC has already offered this too. SEC wants national titles in all sports and both schools would only strengthen their ability to do so.
I was just thinking.. How many stadiums in the big 12 are places you want to see?? How many on the sec would you love to experience?? I count more places in the sec I would like to experience than there are other teams in the big 12! For as long as I’ve been a sooner fan They have been in the big 12, but this isn’t the big 12 I grew up on.. Now one of the biggest games each year is against two private schools?? At least I think tcu is a private school that’s how much I know about them.. To me all this is leading to for ou is SEC or PAC
Season ticket holders your tickets will be worth more….. 🙂
B12 is walking the mile. Go ahead and put her down.
As long and hard as this ‘horse’ has been beaten, you’d certainly think it would be dead.
Walking the mile…walking the green mile…lol
AMEN!!!
Great post!! My thoughts, exactly!
What About a SEC Super Conference (East/West Divisions)
East / West
Florida / Oklahoma
Georgia / Texas
Kentucky / Texas Tech
Ol Miss / Baylor
Mississippi State / TCU
South Carolina / OSU
Tennessee / Texas A&M
Vanderbilt / Arkansas
Auburn / LSU
Auburn / Missouri
That would be 9 Division Games a year! Could play 2 from the other division say the team that finished in the same place as you in the other division and then a round robin that lasted 1o years so you played every team. Limit it to 1 non-conference game which are usually lame for most teams anyway! You could recruit the whole South very effectively as well with a conference that runs up the Atlantic from Florida to South Caroline over west through Tennessee Arkansas then Oklahoma. South through Texas and then East along the Gulf back to Florida. Huge recruiting base. huge television markets. Leaves Kansas, KSU, and WV out in the cold but there wouldn’t be a whole lot of week games on that schedule.
I like the fact the you listed Auburn twice instead of that other team once 😉
I don’t disagree, but there is that part of me that just wants to see the Big 12 survive. As dumb as it sounds that the Big 12 had this study done it is also smart. Now you have actual numbers to throw at texas not just an opinion. Not to mention I think it pretty safe to say that ESPN will not be renewing their Longhorn Network contract and so Texas will be hurting soon enough. All of that needs to used to leverage texas with hard numbers.
I know I have posted this before but I don’t understand why Clemson, FSU, and North Carolina wouldn’t want to join the Big 12. WVU and few others would be a great East division, and would make whatever the new conference name would be extremely stout in both football and basketball. Heck i would even be ok if Duke wanted to fly the coup. That Conference would easily rival SEC.
That’s the way I see it as well. An ACC/Big12 merger to form the first 16 member superconference would set the tone for the remainder of realignment, with very strong membership for both football and basketball and the resulting lucrative contract (potentially record setting) that would come with it. On top of that, we would have incredible influence as the first superconference in all discussions surrounding football (and sports in general).
Additionally, I feel like a merger of conferences, instead of jumping solo to another, would result in a much better culture fit. The SEC is a poor culture fit b/c the whole conference uses bag men, and we would have to to be able to compete, and I’d rather keep our integrity. The PAC would be terrible travel wise, and we would be seen as the weird, redneck crazy cousins both there and in the B1G.
Said it before and I’ll say it again.
Independence. We have a strong brand. We don’t need a conference in football. Go independent for a few years until the bigger changes across cfb happen that are inevitable.
We’ll get more revenue and we’re self sufficient as an athletic department anyway.
Dear Big 12….
No way we go to the PAC now. First, we had our chance to join and blew it. Second, spanning 3 different timezones is a nightmare for watching games. Third, travel costs would be enormous, especially for sports that like baseball, softball, or gymnastics that don’t bring in much money.
Reasonably, I think it would be best to join either the Big 10 or SEC. Independence is nice, but it I doubt we’d stay independent for that long. Might as well get in a conference now, get your half share or three-quarters share of the the conference money and television, then in a few years you’ll get a full share like everyone else.
The Big 10 would offer a chance to revitalize the OU/Neb rivalry and play Michigan or Ohio State once a year (if they happen to fall outside our division, of course). The SEC is interesting, it certainly would have a boost for recruiting, play blue blood schools more regularly (which OU needs), and get a share of ESPN’s love. Another bonus to joining the SEC would be the Paul Finebaum would have to interview Bob Stoops more often and I would love to see how that goes down.
You know Finebaum would love to have OU in SEC. It would give him another bell cow to crow over and strengthen his voice more on the SEC dominance.
OU to the PAC only happens if most of the Big 12 becomes a giant Eastern division. I doubt that happens. And I doubt Boren takes OU to the SEC. That leaves staying in the Big 12 or going to the Big 10 as the only options I really see.
It’s about money for BOR who influence choices. If they want into the SEC, they will find a way to get Boren on board.
Disagree. Both leagues need each other. One or the other will get left out of playoffs every year.
Our recruiting in CA, Az, NV, Wash and Utah would be helped. The TV market would be huge.
We need to be the first to move.
IMO, the ONLY way this could be a plus for the Big XII is that we poach 2 “name brand” teams from one or more power 5 conferences.
I’ve said this before but dissolving the longhorn network and recruiting Nebraska back along with Iowa would be a home run. You instantly rekindle the OU NU rivalry while giving ISU and in-state conference rival in the Hawkeyes.
One scenario of many…
I think Nebraska burned the return to Big XII bridge
nah, we’d welcome them back with open arms I’m sure
Nebraska has less than zero desire to come back is what I mean
They left due to texsa so if the longhorn network were dissolved, they’d listen
That ship sailed and their president loves their academic standing in Big Ten. Football suffered but the pres doesn’t care since he’s making big bucks on both sides of the house. Nebraska is laughing at Big 12.
It would be nice, but NU makes WAY more money from the BI6. OUr best chance to renew with them is to get in the BI6 ourselves.
I’m fairly certain the OU/NU relationship was and is still intact. Texsa seems to be the problem. (OK…I’ll say it myself, “that’s an understatement”)
Exactly how do you propose convincing two “brand name” teams to join this outhouse known as the Big XII? Exactly which two “brand names” would dumb enough to do that when half of the “brand names” in this conference want out?
The only way you get to name brands is if the Big 10 starts poaching the ACC. They want 2-4 teams, and none of them are the Clemsons, Louisvilles, or Miamis. And I’m not so sure FSU is really one of them, though it’s been rumored.
I’ve long said the best thing that can happen in the Big 10 taking something like Duke, NC, GT, and whomever, leaving the ACC in a position to lose FSU, Clemson, Louisville, and Miami to the Big 12. The Big 12 could also pick up Cincy and UCONN/Pitt/Syracuse, and all the sudden the Big 12 has four really, really good pods.
Pod 1:
OU/OSU/KU/KSU
Pod 2:
UT/Baylor/TCU/TT
Pod 3:
FSU/Clemson/Louisville/Miami
Pod 4:
ISU/Cincy/WVU/(UCONN/Pitt/Cuse)
That is 100% the best option for OU and the Big 12. But it’s a bit out of our control as well, currently.
Do you have any credible evidence that Duke, NC, GT would consider leaving for the B1G?
Yes.
Sure, UT would agree to being with Baylor and TCU while we get OSU and KSU.
Tall order, I know- prob taller than tall but, as I said, the ONLY way probably means there’s no way. texsa would HAVE to dissolve TLN before any name brands would seriously consider it.
Big 12 Expansion =
What,no open post———–
Doubt it, bet this was all we get today.
The post is always open for you buddy!
Snakes, hallmark, cheryl, and guns.Feel free to add to a list of things better to talk about!!!!!!!!!!! Than realignment.
Beer in Schooners from Lone Star Oyster bar would be up there. : )
Bazingaaaaaaaa.
Or just go to the Spoon and have a few longnecks.
A bucket at the spoon sounds great.
And a good band so save me a seat. 1st bucket on me.
There’s a new hallmark movie coming out in June –
It’s called; “As the Conference Turns”
It is a sad and weepy tale of bitchy ADs back-stabbing one another and endless cat-fights among university presidents trying to mark their territory with inferior equipment.
This saga will be performed by “B” and “C” players, who all think they are “A” listers.
They asked Matthew Mcconaughey to be the UT AD and he said alright, alright, alright. He will be the one driving a Lincoln in the movie.
Boren’s strongest HAND would have been to bring this matter to the B12 AFTER nda discussions with SEC B1G ACC PAC12. Let’s hope he has seen this light. Even though Sooners might only entertain seriously two of those choices (SEC/B1G) it might potentially light a fire under AZ/A.Z ST, NU, MO, AR, FSU, CL and a few others not totally happy with their own situations. Who is to say either or both B12 & ACC will be secured P5 conferences inside of 5-7 years?
At least Boren’s B12 discussions would be with valid alternatives in hand and that might tip the little eight schools urgency to act and willingness to invest in their conference rather than just sit and watch the world go by. In any case–Jordan is correct, it is time for the Sooners to move on.
Texas to the PAC12 & OU to the SEC would be an absolute disaster for UT recruiting. OU would again own North Texas. The same could be said if Texas went to the B1G & OU did not. It is not in our interest to play in this same league with with UT or the Austin staffed zebras they have stacked this conference with any longer.
President Boren did that when he raised the Pac12 issue. I’ve discussed that on earlier posts, but the bottom line is that he and Scott thought they had the votes for OU to join the Pac when President Boren raised the issue. Unfortunately, they were wrong.
Regardless, this situation now is that B1G and Pac are (as I understand it) acceptable to President Boren. The SEC is not.
Ok a long screwed up day and meetings SUCK not as bad as texsa tho.
Metz out and BOOMER!———————
hOU,Mojo,Pagan,Fear,Bob,Slim,737,Doc,Cush,Ray,Sam,
,Boom,Jake,Scott,Golf,Bleed,J.r.,Woof, ,*Cheryl*,
Malicongs,Oscar,76,Super K,Jordan,Dave,Rick,Joe,
,Dawg,Jp,Dustin,Kj,Dick,Alar,Robertson,Woods,
, ,Hawk,Hwsnbn, Electric,London,Jed,T.Rob.,Rainy,
Brien,Bear,Colorado,Higg,Stl,47,Cdz,Cav,Jason,
Dc,Drew,Collin,Doobie,Bgood,Pimp,403,Zack,Shelby,
Mike,Sooper,l”carpetron,Ed,Lane,Garner,Brown,Ouknow
Soonersd,jimini
Have a great day, Metz.
Leaving in the midst of “Big 12-2 Expansion babble” is not sporting to the rest of us. Come back and take it!
I don’t ever know if you’re addressing me or the guy who’s user name is plain ol’ Drew. So i just silently nod and say, “See ya Metz,” to myself when you list all the posters.
Hmm, I’ve been assuming he’s been addressing me this whole time. Metz, this needs clarification!
Two birds with one stone. lol
Probable destination?
For primarily on/off the field competitive reasons, I’d like us in the SEC. I think there’s a pretty significant cultural fit in the SEC as well.
I watched some of the LSU games. Significant cultural fit is pretty scary.
Why would we want to “class up” the SEC (along with turning it into an unwieldy super-super conference)?
For primarily on/off the field competitive reasons, I’d like us in the SEC. I think there’s a pretty significant cultural fit in the SEC as well.
#facts
Spot on. BOOMER!
I didn’t follow the conference talk as much because i was somewhat young when a&m and Missouri left but i have some questions. Why did they leave/get to leave and also why didn’t we leave? Both of those teams are border line mediocre in the SEC and i know our performance would exceed what their’s has been.
Oddly, in large part for the reasons the Big12 wants to expand now (excluding favorable votes from the CFP committee). Cultural fits, conference network (and/or larger media markets), recruiting inroads, etc. Media revenue will force 4 superconferences. The only question is what will the Big12 and OU do leading up to that? Personally, I’d much rather OU bail as opposed to being involved with some temporary band aid solution that compromises our brand until the inevitable occurs.
Everyone left because of texsa. Nebraska left after having all the sh&t they could stand and everyone else followed for the same reason. It isn’t the first conference they’ve burnt to the ground.
Snooze news
Also how much would that screw over Texsa if we left them behind in this conference?
Texas alone can’t sustain a conference for very long. They’d move at the same time or shortly after we move.
Don’t you think they would just go independent until said offer is given from another conference?
That’s a possibility but any conference that wants them is probably going to take one of TTU, TCU, or maybe Baylor. If Texas goes independent it basically sinks those schools that have been loyal to it for awhile. Think Texas would be better off sustaining them and moving as a group.
Prediction:
The Big 12 will continue as is until the LHN contract with ESPN terminates.
To many network contracts, Big 12 contractual obligations, disputes to change course now.
We are in a trap of our own making.
Sadly, history would suggest there is a real possibility of this.
President Boren will, I believe, do everything in his power to keep this from happening.
Sadly, history would suggest there is a real possibility of this.
President Boren will, I believe, do everything in his power to keep this from happening.
The buy out goes down every year. In 3-5 years the increase pay of other conferences may make it worth it buying out
a lot of people have been saying the same thing for several years……..
Always at the start of the new fiscal year when all these presidents gather to vote for anything new. Nothing changes.
Best case (with those that are currently available):
Give me Notre Dame, and UCF. in the old Big12N. So I’m always fighting the Irish and I have a presence in FL
with our 4 non conf.
1 – Rotating SEC
2 – Nebraska (every year)
3 – Rotating Cali (FresnoSt., Cal, USC, UCLA, SDSU)
4 – Strong group of 5 team (LAtech/m’roe,Houston/Tulsa, BYU/AirForce, MAC leader/Temple(for our PA players)?)
ND isn’t going anywhere but the ACC
Then Colorado State to try to get Denver market back and a big inappropriate gesture to CU. They can’t be any worse than CU.
I like this. It’s pie in the sky but I truly like this.
Try to emphasize:
1. We play with the perceived best
2. We have tradition
3. If you’re a national ‘croot, we’re going to play near your home sometimes
I would take 10 wins a year against this sched.
*Sub CSU for Notre Dame if they don’t want/cant make it. It should help TV market in Denver.
All 5 million folks who like hockey more than football unless it’s the Broncos. Not a college football market IMO.
Thanks, Jordan. Good insight on this issue. I just hate this topic though because it gives me such a headache and nothing ever gets done seems like.
….
And high on David Boren’s list of potential candidates is the bearcats. Aside from perhaps some sort of recruiting angle in Ohio, what real value do they bring to the table? I find it hard to believe they have any real drawing power.
See duck below. It says it all.
They’re pretty new money, building a beautiful new stadium and fan base is on the rise. Whether they’re just going to be another mouth to feed from Big 12 revenue is beyond me.
Edit: I think it’s just a stadium renovation. It’s not going to expand much of their already small stadium but it certainly looks cool.
Go to the big 10. It would be the best move. And renew the Nebraska rivalry.
Got my vote.
UNLV would be great for travel reasons and OU could create a Bishop Gorman pipeline.
Just in from Taco Tuesday…….are we still in this stupid conference? 🙂
Well, actually…
We need conference retraction, not expansion. We need a Big XII without OU
No more calls, please. We have a winner.
The bad thing for OU is the fact that negotiating TV contracts for any of the contracts is not easy, and NOT A SINGLE conference will accept an OU without a promise from of more money from their TV providers.
Thank you Jordan. Once again the obvious best route is clear, get out of the conference. That still doesn’t mean Boren has the guts to do it. Still tied to Texsa…why again??? Make the break now! Texsa has been laughing and counting their money long enough while dragging OU and the rest of the conference along for the ride.
The entire Big 12 (however many) might as well just flash the hook ’em horns sign at every game. Puke!
Expansion article at The Tulsa World
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/johnklein/john-klein-what-ou-osu-do-in-expansion-will-impact/article_6c0715c7-b081-5081-a485-a8400b3ba7ce.html
I’d like to see some teams added that 1;) are smaller profile teams ( Arkansas St., SW Missouri St., Colorado St., Univ of Northern Arizona, Univ of New Mexico, UTEP, Louisiana Tech, etc ) that OU & OSU can beat regularly. If this conference expansion is for real, might as well add LOCAL, small fanbased teams the state schools can beat regularly to improve their records for bowl games and playoffs……
So why not Memphis and Cincy?
I couldn’t agree more, and I was desperately wishing we would move the last go around of “expansion” when Mizzou and A&M left. We should have packed our bags the moment the shortwhorn network became a thing.
What the Big 12 does (or most likely doesn’t do) will influence the future of FBS and the potential to bring order to the present chaos of determining a champion. I don’t know for sure, but maybe Boren is enough of a statesman to consider this larger picture?
PS. I actually like all the B12 matchups.
AMEN!!!! Time to head Southeast.
Expand? Yup, but ONLY if you can add Louisville and Arkansas. If not, go elsewhere. Tuckfexas.
I’m all in for Expansion. Pick up a FL school and another one in SEC country. And NO … getting out would never ever ever put us in a better opportunity to go to playoffs.
The B12 was doomed when they failed to capitalize on FSU, Clemson, and Louisville. Time to jump ship.
We need to join the SEC asap. It is very hard to win a NC in this conference and it’s not going to get any easier in the future. Margin for error is too thin with the national perception of the current conference makeup. As a long time fan I would rather play in the best conf with the best athletes while getting better match-ups weekly. The recruiting would be guaranteed top 5 every year by just switching to the SEC. It’s obviously where the majority of the best athletes want to go and with our tradition and titles it’s an easy decision if the opportunity is there.
Do you honestly think we can consistently beat the Bama, FL, LSU, Auburn, etc every year versus Bayor, Horns, and TCU to make playoffs? Nonsense … The best athletes will go to a team that CONSISTENTLY wins. We have a better chance with that in the B12 than SEC.
I would like to watch us try. I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that question till we get there and start playing them with the same type of athletes. Also the majority of the best athletes go to the SEC because that is a pipeline to the NFL. They eventually want to get paid. We have 1 NC in 15 years in this dumpster fire of a conference. I couldn’t care less about playing some of these teams each year. I would rather play the best and live with the results.
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