Attempting To Diagnose OU’s Zone-Read Issues

Image via zimbio.com

Fully willing to concede up front I’m not JY or K when it comes to X’s & O’s and/or breaking down the finer points of the game, but I simply couldn’t help myself when it came to these zone-read issues the offense has been having of late. So I decided to go back and try to diagnose some of what hasn’t been working and maybe even more so, debunk one of the popular message board theories that Trevor Knight doesn’t know how to run the zone-read.

A huge reason why he won the job over Blake Bell two years ago was because of his ability to make plays outside the pocket, and I just can’t believe they’d even have the zone-read in the offense (let alone such a significant part, at least in my opinion, of what they want to do in the run game) if Knight was as bad at making the read as some apparently want to believe.

Let’s see what we can find.

First, undeniable video evidence he does know how to run it. And this isn’t even really run all that well (I’ll explain below), but you can see — when run properly — just how effective it can be.

It looks to me like the two Tennessee LBs almost stunt a little bit, you can see the OLB (#50) shuffle under while the ILB (#56) comes around off the OLB’s outside shoulder. Which, to me, seems like you should give Knight even more credit for reading the play properly and pulling the ball back out.

And, again, the ILB doesn’t even really crash down all that hard on Ford, but gets just off-balance enough that Knight recognizes it and knows he has the athleticism to still get the corner and get up field (and in this case, into the end zone).

knight1

Here you see it a click or two later and even though Ripkowski bypasses #50 for a second level block and Ford really doesn’t block anyone at all, because Knight made a good fake and the right read both LBs cannot recover in time to get out and make the play.

knight2

Knight gets the corner, puts his foot in the ground, and cuts it up the field. And because Blake Bell locks his man up on the outside, Knight has a clear path for the touchdown.

knight3

And I think that’s what is so frustrating about this whole situation. We know we can do it. It’s not really all that difficult to make the necessary read. Is he going to make the right read 100% of the time? Of course not, but I also don’t believe that’s the expectation of any of us with a brain.

Watch this play as just one example as to why I’m so confused.

This is literally the first offensive snap in the game for OU’s offense. Virtually an identical pre-snap look (pistol formation, Rip to the right of the formation instead of left but that really doesn’t change anything, and no Bell at TE here) from the example above. I’ll try and describe what to watch here prior to the video as the angle isn’t all that great to try and screen grab pics like I normally would.

The o-line crashes to their left, leaving Rip matched up with the DE. And he just absolutely squares up and destroys dude, driving him backwards at least two yards. Behind that, you can see Jordan Hicks (No. 3 LB) and Jason Hall (No. 31 S) — who was cheating up as the ball is snapped — both crash hard inside on the read action to Samaje Perine. All of which to me is the perfect example of where you read what you’re seeing in front of you, pull the ball back out (just as was done in the example above), to get the corner and get up field.

Again, I’m certainly no expert. But every single thing about this “zone-read” or “read-option” play screams to me, based on what the defense does, for the QB to keep the ball. Well, I take that back. There is one thing that didn’t really jive.

If you watch the play again, and it’s kind of hard to see because it sort of happens off-screen, but watch Sterling Shepard at the bottom of the screen. Does anyone else find it a little odd that he looks to be running an actual pass route and never really attempts to go for a block? Granted, the play is happening right in front of him and he can quickly see it get very little in the way of yards, but it just struck me as a little odd. If this were truly a play in which Knight had the freedom to make an actual read, and it wasn’t just a predetermined run up the middle, wouldn’t Shepard’s primary responsibility as the play-side WR would have been to lock up his man on the outside?

Here is the very next play, again a “zone-read” that goes for virtually nothing. On this one, you can see the Texas DE (I think it’s Cedric Reed) play it pretty well. He doesn’t really crash on the fake, but he does hesitate (as anyone who didn’t immediately crash one way of the other would) AND Tyrus Thompson is there to get a block on him regardless. So you’d have Knight manned up with a DE, albeit a very athletic one, in space AND with some help from his left tackle and yet he still decides not to pull it back out? Sorry, but I’m just not buying it.

*Total aside, but I think this play in particular is as much on Perine as it is Knight for, in my opinion, not making the right read. It looks to me like Perine doesn’t really wait for his blocks to develop and tries to bounce it outside. Whereas if he’d waited just that split-second, you can see Rip get up in the hole and what looked to me like a pretty significant cutback lane to the left off Dionte Savage. But that’s also the kind of thing that’s REALLY easy to second guess sitting here in front of my computer then it would be real-time on the field.

Another example. This is OU’s second offensive possession on a 2nd & 10. Ignoring how stupid it is to try and run the zone-read with Ross, a RB whose skill set is in almost no way whatsoever suited to that style of running, here I believe Knight makes the right decision. Though that is with the caveat that Daryl Williams lunging to make a block on No. 40 and missing forces Knight’s hand. And I think Ross might have even been able to get some positive yards were it not for Malcom Brown (keep an eye on No. 90 lined up over the LG) absolutely rag-dolling (wow!) Adam Shead.

This one, from the TCU game this time, to me is a perfect representation of the type of zone-read play we’re all screaming about where by all accounts, it looks like he walks into the end zone (admittedly that might not actually have been the case here because the deep safety could have theoretically made a play, but at a minimum he gets more than the half yard Perine did and at worst is one-on-one with a defender in space). And, again, here every indication I can see with the defense crashing hard on the read action is to pull it back out and run.

Even this play, also from the TCU game, while it doesn’t go for a ton of yards it’s another example — like the one at the top — of Knight knowing how to make the proper read. Defense crashes on the read action to the RB, he correctly pulls it back out and takes off. He just has to do a better job of (1) avoiding the tackle and (2) knowing where the first down marker is and get past it.

Look, I get this is just a handful of plays and if I had the time and/or thought you would care to see another however many examples of the same thing I’d go find them. And even after all of this, here is the most frustrating part. I’m not any more confident one way or the other as to what the damn problem is here.

I can (and did) find you examples of him being asked/allowed to make the proper read and doing so. While I can (and did) also find examples of him not being either not being allowed to make the read (i.e. a predetermined zone read play where he’s handing the ball off no matter what, which makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever) or making the improper read. I’ll leave it up to you to decide on your own.

I’m somewhat leaning towards the predetermined run scenario because (1) he accurately described how to properly execute the zone-read when he spoke on Monday following Bob Stoops’ presser AND (2) we have actual video evidence that he knows how to do it. Again, my expectation never has been nor will it ever be for him to make the right read 100% of the time. He’s going to make mistakes.

And I’m not in those meeting rooms or on the headset when Heupel calls the play in, so I can’t definitively tell you whether he’s actually making the wrong read or if he’s being told not to keep it. But it just doesn’t hold water with me that he’d be making the wrong read as many times as I/we believe we’ve seen him make.

103 Comments

  • Josh says:

    The dude knows how to run the ZR. I am 100% confident it is being called ZR Give in the huddle. I believe the staff thinks the threat of him running is sufficient to slow up the defense enough to help the running game be successful while not putting him at risk.

    • chrism891 says:

      None of those plays showed are zone reads because the ends are being blocked, the only one that was was the last video and that was the triple option, he read it right, we left the end unblocked and he crashed. He just has to get the first down. A lot of those the guard pulls, which would be a power play. We simply just aren’t running the read at all. We have probably run it 5 times all year. If we’d run it 5 times a game it would make a huge difference. ***Thing to look for when seeing if its a true zone read… is the play side end blocked? If he is, it isn’t a read***

      • ND52 says:

        Zone read is not one specific play—-it’s zone blocking where the QB reads a specific player. That player can be anyone on the defense.

        • chrism891 says:

          Right, but it’s always a first level defender. The end is a read option the DT would be the midline. You don’t read linebackers and or safeties bc there is too much trash in the line of sight for the QB to get a good read on. They aren’t reading nearly any plays and Huepel confirmed that last evening. If they were you’d see TK running it like he last year

  • Jed says:

    And let me add that the guy (Knight) seems to me to be very, very ‘football fast’. He’s got a glide in his stride and doesn’t seem like he’s moving….but keeps up with guys who look like they’re moving a lot faster….and runs around a lot sometimes all around DBs who are trying to catch him.
    I do wish he’d put the damn ball under his arm, though, and not hang it out like a counterweight.

  • ME says:

    I think they’ve been having him play safe. Practically, given the experience that he has behind him, I’m good with that. The problem that we ran into was that, when the rubber met the road and he had to run it to win. It didn’t work. I think back to that 3rd and 2 option on the next to last drive at TCU. If he pitches to Neal it might be a TD. He kept it. Every kid growing up in Oklahoma in the 1970’s and 80’s could see that. But because he’s been kept in bubble wrap he’s still not got the kinks properly worked out on some of these things it didn’t work as planned.

    Great kid, great talent but without his wheels it hurts who he is.

    • CS says:

      I don’t think that option of pitching to Neal was there. There was a guy on the outside, though he was getting blocked but he was setting the edge for sure. But, Trevor needs better awareness to extend the ball (you need to do all you can to get that 1st down – can’t settle for anything else, considering it was a 3rd down play).

  • John Garner says:

    Great analysis Jordan, even for an amateur. I’m of the opinion that the coaches or maybe just Bob have decided to limit TK’s carries and minimize any risk of injury to him. Too bad. We’d still be in the top 4 and undefeated if they played to his abilities.

    • soonerthunder says:

      I agree with you. I didn’t criticize OU play-calling for not using it earlier (b/f TCU), b/c we jumped on every team in the 1st Q. Bob Stoops wins a lot of games b/c when he gets up on you, he doesn’t do stupid stuff and he doesn’t care what the media/fans say. Getting TK hurt would be stupid in games like that. However, to limit TK against TCU or UT is just plain hamstringing our O, which hurts our D (b/c our D goes quickly back onto the field), etc. I agree; we’d still be in top 4 if they played to TK’s abilities.

    • SoonerfanTU says:

      I don’t agree with the assumption that we’d have definitely beaten TCU had we been running Knight more. We scored 33 points in that game, racked up 461 yards of offense, and Knight had 13 rushes for 61 yards. That loss goes on the defense.

      • CS says:

        Equal blame. Trevor needed to make one more play from 6 chances he got in their half. He couldn’t.

    • CS says:

      I think it is a combination of two things that worked against Bob’s thinking in the TCU game. 1. He thought our defense is capable of shutting down/limiting anyone – which we all know didn’t happen in the TCU game in the first half. 2. Assuming the first, he thought we need TK out there to win, instead of him being a difference maker – hence the conservative play calling. Since, 1 didn’t work, we had to change our stance on 2, which we couldn’t.

      I say this because of TK’s presser. Every time he talks about being a “distributor” rather than a play maker. They have beaten it into his head that he just needs to make simple throws and let our play makers make plays. If our defense keeps playing below par, as they are, we need TK to be a play maker rather than a distributor. JH/Stoops need to open it more (with TK running).

      • soonermusic says:

        I understand what you’re saying, but the problem was a handful of plays that the offense needed to execute properly and didn’t. If they don’t run the play correctly it won’t work, whether it’s the zr or a pass to KJ. The absence of the zone read didn’t hamstring the offense, not executing the plays that were called did that.

  • SoonerOracle737 says:

    I still have the gut feeling that TK9 doesn’t want to run the football, even though he has a green light, but with caveat to get down quickly. I think TK9 wants to be known as a passing QB and not a runner. I think he even said so at the beginning of the season in a session with the media.

  • shawn says:

    Serious question, if Knight continues to struggle with accuracy this season does anyone think Mayfield will be given an opportunity to compete for the starting spot next year? He seems to be more accurate from what I’ve seen of him and he is able to run as well.

    • ratman says:

      I think so. Bob loves competitive situations.

      • shawn says:

        I’d love to see Knight perform at a high level consistently but things just don’t seem to be clicking for him. Granted it’s not all on him his receivers have let him down repeatedly but I’d say he has thrown far more poor passes than good ones.

        • soonermusic says:

          “far more poor passes” I don’t think that’s right, or even close. He’s thrown a couple of errant passes in the game, but the others were due to receivers in the wrong place, or drops, or route timing messed up by the defense, or a break down in protection, or miscommunication on route adjustment, or receivers not getting open when they needed to, or really good coverage. He has also missed some reads, and not held the ball long enough for the routes to get open a couple of times, but as far as his accuracy goes, far more are good than poor as far as what I’ve seen.

          • shawn says:

            I disagree he has a tendency to throw high and his receivers constantly have to make adjustments to have a chance at the ball. Just because the ball is caught does not make it a good throw. For examplr when you lead your receiver into a hit I personallywould categorize that as a bad pass. I don’t think Knight is a bad quarterback I just think we need a more accurate passer. If Knight was in a system similar to TCU or auburn or if OU took advantage of the screen and swing routes like others here have said, I think he would thrive however that’s not the case and he is struggling right now. Still plenty of time to correct it and as I said he’s not far off. But IMO since the bye week he has been off and at times just flat out bad. But like I said before it’s not only him and a lot of it also has to do with poor play calling.

    • SoonerfanTU says:

      One of two things will happen.

      Either the staff knows they’ve been holding Knight back due to health reasons, and they think he can do better if they open things up knowing they had a good backup QB in case of injury, in which case, he’ll be given that chance next year.

      Or they’ll truly open up the competition, and if it comes down to passing only, Mayfield beats him out.

  • BigJoeBrown says:

    If they are afraid of Knight getting injured and really don’t prefer him to run, and mainly use him as a drop back passer. Then why not give Cody Thomas a try for a series or two. He would be running the exact same offense, with no real threat of a running quarterback.

    • akryan says:

      Doesn’t Cody Thomas have some sort of academic issue?

    • CS says:

      When it was Landry, we needed Blake, when it was Blake, we needed Trevor, now with one loss and a bad 2 quarters, we are calling for Cody. Have some faith and a little patience. Why would you think Cody is a better passer than Trevor?

  • soonerthunder says:

    Thank you for the analysis, Jordan. I agree and cannot figure out why against TCU and UT we didn’t run the ZR. Let me also ask you this: Why don’t you think OU runs the bubble pass any more? It’s good for a few yds most times and it’s a high % pass. I’m not as critical of TK’s low % as some b/c if you look he’s thrown an inordinate number (until the last two games) of long bombs. It’s the flat pass that ups the % and until lately we haven’t thrown many. But I rarely (if ever, I can’t remember one this yr) throw the bubble pass. What do you think, Jordan?

    • BR says:

      Im not Jordan, but i agree with ya thunder, the bubble screen, middle screen, flare passes to the flat…and also in last year K-state game. TK ran a fiew reverse roll outs that worked great, Why have we gone away from all that? confusing as hell to me

      • Sam Sherwood says:

        Me, too.
        That’s why I blame JH. Our offense scheme is lacking. We don’t run counters, traps, mis-direction plays that help setup blocks. Not running the quick screens, flares, etc., to stretch the defense from sideline-to-sideline and was so successful against ‘Bama. No motions into overload sets that can confuse the secondary just before the snap. Our route schemes are simplistic with very few cross-over/under rub/pick routes, drag routes, TE sluggo routes, etc. These same issues hurt the Landry Jones’ offense also, but Landry “usually” overcame it with his passing accuracy and Ryan Broyles.

        • BR says:

          OHhhh yeah Sam, I forgot about the recievers going in motion like they did last year…good point, I didnt even realize they stopped that as well…WTH is going on, I dont understand it

  • BR says:

    The first texas game link/play you posted, stood out to me watching the game live…while I realize it may just of been part of TK trying to sell that he kept it instead of give, BUT! my initail thought was, he wasn’t faking holding a football, it came across to me that TK was running out there like that to show the coaching staff…”LOOK HOW OPEN THIS IS!!”…lol I know thats probably reading to much into it, but its just my exact thought when watching the game.

    Thanks again JORDAN….Im rite there with everything your saying

  • Exiled In Ohio says:

    What percentage of the time does a ZR QB keep the ball? From watching other teams, it seems like 20-25% of the time, more in some cases. So, if TK is keeping it less than 5% of the time, he’s either reading terribly or has been told to give. Like Jordan said, there’s plenty of evidence from last year that TK knows how to read … so where does that leave us?

  • SoonerMagic15 says:

    You could have very easily looked at the final 4th down play against TCU as well, as far as a designed hand off from the read look. TCU in their base 4-2 with backers over the guards and we run right into the teeth. A safety was “close” on the strong side of the formation but he was moving towards the teeth early making it a very easy read. I honestly think a lot of this is coming from the press-box through Heupel’s headset. But then again we can go back and look at when Jason White tore up his knee against Nebraska with no one within 15 yards of him. Stoops hinted in his presser this week about a starting QB going down, but you have to run something to it’s potential for it’s full effect.

    • Exiled In Ohio says:

      Neither of Jason’s injuries were from contact, if I recall correctly. They were just terrible luck. I’m not sure a few runs, with smart slides, really increases the risk of injury that much. As someone pointed out the other day, Bradford’s injury came from inside the pocket.

  • vargo05 says:

    There is no doubt he knows how to run the zone read. He’s rather decent at it in my opinion. He’s not being allowed to run it. We are running handoffs, that’s all. You can call a turd chocolate if you want, but in the end it’s still smells and taste like s**t.

  • Indy_sooner says:

    Admirable work with this analysis. You can find the evidence of the predetermined ZR calls from JH’s mouth …”creating an illusion” that Knight will run. This is exactly why we’re where we are.

    • Glocal Sooner says:

      I was shocked he said that. Very disappointing. I was holding out trying to have more confidence in Heup but that statement doesn’t help.

  • Glocal Sooner says:

    Great post Jordan. I think this topic is the hottest one right now for us. Someone posted some highlights of TK last year against KState. If you watch that and the Sugar Bowl, there’s no doubt TK knows how to run the zone read and is great at it. He’s so good at it, when he keeps the ball, he’s usually wide open and either scores or is so open, he has plenty of time to get out of bounds or get down before anyone gets near him. Based on comments made recently by Stoops and Heupel, I’m convinced it’s 100% them not allowing TK to run. When he’s allowed to be that player, his entire game (passing game included) is much better.
    Just my opinion but if they’re holding him back thinking that if he gets hurt the season is over, it’s going to be over sooner than later with him at QB if they don’t let him play to his strengths.

    • Gary Jackson says:

      And from what I have read here and other boards I’m 100% convinced it’s Bob Stoops that is telling him hand that ball off every time.

  • captfoss says:

    Jordan, most (or all, I only watched the first two) of the plays you highlighted as “failed zone read” plays weren’t zone reads. On a true zone read, you leave the DE *completely* unblocked. You see that happen in the first video. The DE takes the RB, so Knight goes outside with it.

    On the 2nd and 3rd (and probably others), you see the tackles blocking the ends, and turning them for an inside hand off. If there is an option, it’s for Knight to keep it and throw it. Plays don’t appear to be designed for the QB to pull them down and run, because both ends are being blocked for an inside handoff / pass.

    • captfoss says:

      On the 4th video where you note he does it correctly (TCU), again, you see the tackle ignore the end and leave him unblocked.

      So, your examples really drive home (for me) that we’re just making out designed hand-offs look like read-option plays, and Knight isn’t pulling them because they designed as hand-offs. We’re trying to use the read-option look to keep the middle loose, but it clearly isn’t working.

      • captfoss says:

        If Knight kept the ball on the “bad read” plays, he’d immediately have a DE chasing him down, because our tackles are giving up outside leverage. It’d be like aborting the pocket early during a pass play. He might outrun some ends, but he’d be giving up ground and it wouldn’t end well for us.

      • Sooner Ray says:

        What you’ve been saying here goes right along with what Josh has been saying, they are presenting an illusion that Knight could run when they actually are hand offs that have the appearance of ZR plays.

    • captfoss says:

      The “sense” it makes to run designed hand-offs that look like zone-read plays is they aren’t blocked like zone-read plays, they’re blocked like a traditional run play would be. So a fake zone read is really just the Kevin Wilson “run up the middle” first down play, and that’s certainly nothing new for this OU offense.

    • Jordan Esco says:

      I could be wrong, but I don’t believe the blocking scheme automatically negates it from being a zone-read play. As I understand it, the zone-read is the QB/RB action. Obviously the blocking scheme is a part of the bigger picture, but I don’t think it determines whether the play is a zone-read or not. But, again, I could be wrong.

      • captfoss says:

        The way I learned it, leaving the DE unblocked is essential to it being a zone read, because the unblocked end is who they key off of for the give/keep…

        Maybe Jy or K can jump in and correct one/both of us 😉

        • SoonerfanTU says:

          Yeah, not sure who the QB would key on if we are blocking the DE.

        • Jordan Esco says:

          Well couldn’t they block the DE and make the read off a LB? Why wouldn’t that be a zone-read, just b/c it’s the LB and not the DE? Again, not saying you’re wrong and I’m right but that wouldn’t seem to make any sense to me.

          • captfoss says:

            They could block the DE and read off an outside LB, but they’d have to block the DE “in” for the QB to have an outside run. They’re blocking them “out”, which would necessarily mean the play was designed to go inside. So it was either a designed hand-off, or they were sending Knight on a dive…

          • Chris White says:

            That’s the point of the Tackle leaving the defensive end and going to the second layer, I was taught as a tackle and tight end to always go to the furthest man outside, on the 2nd layer. So the Defensive end is then left to defend a zone option where he needs to choose, extremely quick, who to pursue.

      • chrism891 says:

        Jordan, in the zone read you need to have someone to read, usually its the end. Sometimes teams run the midline, that is when you read the DT. Texas did that to us on their final drive. Most of the time when teams run the ZR against a 3-4 they will leave the outside backer unblocked b/c he is the end man on the LOS. But Texas started leaving Tapper unblocked and he crashed both times. One was a huge gain the other a TD. The problem running both causes for the defense is that the defender that is unblocked has to recognize he’s unblocked. Tapper wasn’t prepared or used to recognizing that and reacted the wrong way. You better believe KSU will run it a few times Saturday

    • ND52 says:

      On a true zone read, you leave the DE *completely* unblocked.

      Not true. The “read” can be any player on the defense: LB, DE, DT—-doesn’t matter. Zone means you’re blocking areas—-not specific players.

      • captfoss says:

        But you still need to seal block on the edge, unless you’re sending the QB on a dive. Given that they’re trying to protect Knight, it seems more likely it was a designed give than it was a read/option dive…

      • chrism891 says:

        Like the video, and especially that I talked about the midline option below just before you posted this video 😉

        “Jordan, in the zone read you need to have someone to read, usually its the end. Sometimes teams run the midline, that is when you read the DT. Texas did that to us on their final drive. Most of the time when teams run the ZR against a 3-4 they will leave the outside backer unblocked b/c he is the end man on the LOS. But Texas started leaving Tapper unblocked and he crashed both times. One was a huge gain the other a TD. The problem running both causes for the defense is that the defender that is unblocked has to recognize he’s unblocked. Tapper wasn’t prepared or used to recognizing that and reacted the wrong way. You better believe KSU will run it a few times Saturday”

    • L'carpetron Dookmarriot says:

      In videos 1, 3, and 4 there is someone either pulling or trapping an unblocked defender. It looks like those are inside zone trap plays. An zone-read illusion to a wonderful running play. In both of those videos, it looks like the RB didn’t follow the trapping blocker. If Rip had not blocked a lineman, but, instead, blocked Edmond, and Perine followed him, then Perine would be to the second level. If Ross had followed Bell who was blocking Edmond, again, then Ross would be to the second level.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLve37a-htQ#t=20

      Also, against, Texas, later in the game, it looks like OU runs an inside trap. Nila pulls and creates a lane. Perine goes in untouched.

      http://youtu.be/xFkujUNj2F0?t=11m5s

      • captfoss says:

        There is a trap on the 2nd video as well.

        • L'carpetron Dookmarriot says:

          Then, it seems, that we have our answer. They are illusions to a zone read. The trap is an elegant running play. Until now, I haven’t been able to watch closely enough to see if OU runs traps, whams, and counters. They run traps.

  • Logan says:

    Dude this whole ZR thing is getting pretty annoying. Unless someone is actually reading Heupel’s scripts for the game we will never truly know. But to state the obvious, TK is injury prone. He missed several games last season and he has been “ruffed up” this season. We have no reliable back up and honestly letting him run the RZ and actually “read” it only heightens the chance of injury for TK in the great dilemma of making an actual decision(handing the ball off is a much faster play than reading the zone read, watch the plays above, TK never rides the running back which most people running the zone read actually do to force a decision on the defense). That being said, I like the zone read the way we run it. We may get stuffed most of the time when they have 8 guys in the box on the give(get used to it) but the times TK actually keeps it is a guaranteed 15 yd. gain for us and keeps TK out of harms way.

    • chrism891 says:

      But if we don’t run Trevor and he stays healthy but we lose one more game what was the point? Oklahoma is about winning championships, you cant worry about injuries. Our best chance to win a championship is to let Trevor use his legs. The problem is the zone read isn’t being called, everyone thinks it is b/c of the mesh point (handoff) with the running back. But when you block the play side end that isn’t the zone read, its a full blown hand off

      • SoonerfanTU says:

        You are assuming the only way we can lose a game is by not running Knight. We can lose games with Knight running. We can also win games without him running. I don’t understand this thought process that somehow allowing TK to run the ball all the time makes us unbeatable.

        • chrism891 says:

          I didn’t say running him all the time, but 5-10 times a game makes the defense have something else to respect. I said our best chance to win a championship is to allow him to run. Go watch the KSU game from last year and tell me that doesn’t look like a completely different QB and offense in general. Why have a dynamic runner at QB if you wont let him run? If you think we will win out this year trying to make Trevor a pocket passer and not completely opening the offense then you are in for a rude awakening.

          • Andrew says:

            Iowa State game from last year also. (granted it was Iowa State)

          • soonermusic says:

            The difference in the KSU game from last year was that they were properly executing the plays that were called. If they had done that vs. TCU we would have won the game. The coaches clearly do not think they are “trying to make Trevor a pocket passer.” He is one as far as they’re concerned, and that judgement is based upon everything they’ve seen him do. Deciding not to run Trevor is a difficult and calculated decision, because, as you say, he’s a dynamic runner. But unless we can execute the plays that are called, it won’t matter.

          • chrism891 says:

            Looking at the plays on the DVR, seeing how they are blocking the majority of the run plays. Trevor isn’t reading anyone. I played and coached option football for 10 years. Trevor knows how to read the option, he’s proven that, they just aren’t calling it. When hes carried the ball 31 times all year through 6 games and Huepel through 6 games carried it 34 times in 2000, then its obvious the read just isn’t being called. Heupel said it himself on Monday, they aren’t running the read option very much at all. So its not about executing the read, its about it not being called.

          • soonermusic says:

            Completely agree.

        • ND52 says:

          He can’t throw the ball—–what else are they supposed to do?

          • SoonerinLondon says:

            Would have to agree that, if he can’t hit the throws, it’s fair to ask what else should we do with him?

            At this point, 1 more loss may as well be 6, in terms of making the playoff. If the coaches are ever going to take the reigns off TK, it should be now.

            The only other option would seem to be, if there is a better pocket passer on the bench, give him a try.

          • ND52 says:

            @soonerinlondon:disqus The question is this though: so long as Heupel is the OC would it even matter who they played? As soon as he became the OC, Landry Jones started going downhill and outside of the Sugar Bowl and K-State, Knight has looked average at best.

          • SoonerinLondon says:

            I don’t know how to judge JH as an OC. He was pretty good calling plays against Bama and in Q3 of the Texas game, not so good in Q4 at TCU or Q4 of the Texas game.

            Is it execution or play calling? How much should be attributed to good D by TCU or UT?

            I’m not defending JH, but LJ’s performance drop and TK’s drop from Bama both happened to coincide with them losing their best WR’s and being left with 1 main target until others could be developed.

            Certainly, it could be argued, that JH is a better QB coach than OC and that the drop in LJ’s performance was also related to JH not having the same focus.

            I would also ask if current play selection for TK is a result of JH’s work or BS’s directive? I don’t know, just wondering.

            At any rate, I don’t know how to rate JH as an OC, but I do know that our O needs something good to happen…and now, if we’re going to achieve the goals this team set last summer.

          • soonermusic says:

            Don’t ignore what the coaches are saying about where the fault lies in the passing game. Some of the passing problems are because of Trevor’s throwing, but a lot of them aren’t. He’s made many great throws from the pocket. Even with the misses, I don’t think he’s off by much.

        • Daddy R says:

          I dont think he is necessarily “assuming” we cant win without running TK, but just saying that if we are not going to run him, then we probably shouldnt be running the zone read, or even the look of a zone read. I’m totally with you that I think TK can win and be successful without running much, but then I say, lets get our O into some different formations, and not pretend to be an option football team…
          You can totally have the “threat” or “illusion” of a running quarterback out of almost any formation. We need to get him into more successful situations.

        • hOUligan says:

          Think the point is, and I agree, utilizing all of the available weapons at this point. Esp with the WRs not developing as fast. If OU can win with only limited passing and a ‘power run’ game and not risk TK against some teams, great. But against other teams, it opens up the run game. No further evidence needed than looking at film of OU down the stretch last year and in the SB.

  • Omega Man says:

    Slightly different subject… how about this for the rollout action were looking for(along with wide receiver skills} https://vimeo.com/108940416

    • BR says:

      We did that last year…watch the first few minutes of the k-state game last year…I know I counted atleast twice we ran that and both with success

      • SoonerfanTU says:

        I’ve seen it a few times this year, maybe even once against UT. Seems like he rolled out, the WR wasn’t open, and he threw the ball away. And OU fans complained about the play calling. lol

  • OUknowitscomin says:

    Jordan, can tell you from actually being at Tenn game, you are dead on. There were MANY plays I was screaming to self…GO! I mean wide open field that TK could have just gone crazy. Much different perspective live seeing whole field. It’s there…….often

  • Sooner Ray says:

    After hearing Bob admit he was very concerned about Knight’s health and then Josh saying he was presenting an illusion that the QB could run at any time, it’s pretty obvious they have handcuffed Knight and we have all seen he can make a read and go when allowed. As far as Josh as an OC, I have never hidden my opinion. I think he is a brilliant offensive mind if we have four good wide receivers and a capable running back. I don’t think he is very good managing a power run game with only one reliable receiver. Coordinators are known for their “systems” and are often hired to administer those systems, Josh had a system and was asked to manage a system totally unfamiliar to him. I just hope they can meet in the middle and open this offense up enough to roll the rest of the schedule.

  • Stephen says:

    It feels like he (Heupel) creates the “illusion” of a game plan. We all know he just settles for the defense gives him. I would love to see some exploitation and attacking, instead of running down the middle hoping for yards.

  • xunilla says:

    Seconding what ND52 mention.. A zone-read offense is not predicated on reading a specific position (DE/T). It is predicated on reading the backside player closest to the playside blocking. The intent is to create a situation where there are more blockers on the playside than there are defenders. It’s really not that complicated but can seem that way with variation.

    What OU seems to be doing is presenting the appearance of an inside zone-read play but in reality is pretty much nothing but a simple dive play. I haven’t broken it down play by play but my belief is we really don’t zone block that much either.

  • xunilla says:

    Oh.. and on that first example against Texas… If that was OU running the zone-read the way Oregon does it goes for a touchdown. The Texas defense is so far out of position its really just stupid and easy to see why the BYU QB ripped them apart on consecutive years.

  • Kuzi says:

    As someone who used to run the option as a quarterback, I can tell you that often these are not true “reads” because they are blocking the person he should be reading. It’s just a zone read look.

  • Chris White says:

    Speaking of teams with no offensive system, Steven Adams is kicking ass this season!

  • Super K says:

    None of the plays against Texas above appear to be true reads unless Trevor is reading a second level defender. As some mentioned below, the read is meant to get an extra blocker playside. Can read the end or the tackle. Everyone on the DL is accounted for above (Texas clips) unless someone is making a mistake in their blocking. The first play against Texas looks like a perfect set up to read the end if Tyrus gets up to the next level. But Jordan’s point is well taken in that…whatever is happening…it’s not helping OU gain favorable numbers in the run game or stressing the defense with Trevor’s feet.

    • L'carpetron Dookmarriot says:

      Indeed, sir. The way they are blocking/not blocking the line, Trevor giving the ball most of the time, and Perine and Ross seemingly missing holes by not following a blocker, it appears the plays Jordan picked were inside traps (or perhaps versions of inside traps). Said another way, the plays that look like reads are not reads.

      I think Jordan’s point is still well taken. They don’t look like reads to me. If the defensive end is being blocked (in many of the videos), then would teams begin to clue in that it’s not a zone read (certainly not an inverted veer; have we every run one with Knight?)?

      If the defensive lineman is being blocked, then would teams begin to clue in that it’s not a midline option?

      Many times these plays didn’t get Texas’ players out of position. Edmond and Hicks weren’t required to make a scrape exchange because the line was being blocked or trapped. Although, Perine and Ross missed holes because they didn’t follow Rip or Bell (to my eyes anyways and I’m on a football message board site so whatevs…)

  • Jordan Esco says:

    So it would appear I didn’t pick some the best plays to illustrate my point, but that doesn’t change the fact he’s not keeping it on multiple instances in which it appears he could be. Still my bad apparently on the play choices.

    • Sooner Ray says:

      Sometimes it’s hard to illustrate an illusion. 🙂

    • Super K says:

      I think your point is well taken. In fact your point is made in some ways even better with the play selection you made. Why show that action if there is no intention of gaining a blocking advantage and reading someone? Even if Trevor is going to hand it off, at least gain the numbers on the play side. And some of the examples you offered above were indeed reads…the one against Tennessee shows how dangerous it can be.

      • Andrew says:

        If you call them zone reads or something else….if the tackle is blocking the end or not…if the other team doesn’t respect the quarterback keeping the ball out of the backfield then they aren’t going to account for him and that means they are going to have extra defenders in the box. In my opinion, that is why the first half of the Texas game looked so bad. There where plays in the Texas game where the defenders didn’t even look at Knight, during the hand off. If he keeps the ball, he is gone.

  • wolfbuilder says:

    From some of the comments I can tell some of u have played to many video games. In the option game or zone read plays u can read any player on the D, it all depends on who the D is assigning what players to who, so there is many different ways to block one play, a true option team even read nickels, corners and safety’s, just cause u blocked everyone up front doesn’t mean it’s not a read or read option

    • wolfbuilder says:

      Lots of teams that go up against team that runs a lot of man love to read a nickel or corner and sent the guy they r man up with to crack on a backer or safety

    • Super K says:

      Not sure whose comment you’re referring to but if it was mine, I included a caveat saying, “unless Trevor is reading a second level defender”

      • wolfbuilder says:

        No sir K y’all r fine, was talking about the few who think u only read the end man on the line (dend)

  • wolfbuilder says:

    Also one of the main reasons y teams run a zone read was to take a great player on D out of the game, like M Brown of texas, we had hell blocking him, he is a prime example of y we need a true zone read, u can block him without even touching him. That play was made to take single great player out of the play doesn’t really what pos they r

  • boomer8 says:

    Great analysis. I am just as interested in an analysis of our pass defense as we do not seem to be able to defend worth a darn. Unfortunately I anticipate Baylor embarrassing us at home.

  • hOUligan says:

    Does anyone know, IS Cody Thomas healthy/fully recovered???

  • Andrew says:

    In my humble opinion, It doesn’t matter what you call the formation. If the defensive team knows you are not going to run the quarterback and the quarterback has a hard time throwing the ball, then they aren’t going to guard him. I would call us predictable, and in any sport that is a bad thing. I refuse to believe that Texas’ defense is that good or TCU’s for that matter. Even my wife knew what the play calling was going to be and she doesn’t really care.

  • soonermusic says:

    Love the comments on this post. There are clearly quite a few here who can break down some film! A clinic on the zone read. Nice work you guys.

  • soonermusic says:

    I’ve mentioned something simlar to this elsewhere, but I figured to go again, since it seems a lot of folks are still at the “wondering about it” stage.

    Bob and Josh have both very plainly said they have not been running Trevor in part because of the desire to protect him. Heupel has also suggested that an additional reason they’re not doing it is because they’re doing other things. No suggestion that it has anything to do with how well Trevor is able to run it.

    Stoops made it pretty clear in this weeks presser that the decision to protect Trevor is his call. The way he handled the question made it appear to me that he regards it as a tough, unpopular decision. and that he’s evaluating as the season goes how much risk he’s willing to take.

  • soonermusic says:

    It might not have made any difference, because of how the coaches feel about Knight, but if Kendal were on the bench, which I believe was the original strategy, the approach might be different as well.

  • Thomas Lenard says:

    Here is my opinion:
    Trevor Knight has been told he does not have to go out and be the playmaker, just don’t make any mistakes. I think that IS the mistake. Someone needs to tell TK everygame : “You are the QB for the best team in the nation, you have to go out there and win this game. WE NEED YOU to be successful for this TEAM to be successful!”
    The best playmakers make a few mistakes, as the fill the highlight reels with great plays. I could live with him throwing an interception if he throws 3 TDs and rushes for another or two. It seems he is playing scared by what is being asked of him , “Dont make any mistakes”.