Sooners News Daily 5.19.15
Posted on: May 19, 2015
FOOTBALL
‘In unfamiliar territory, Sooners now a dark horse to make playoff’ (Fox Sports)
‘Will Blake Bell Be Vernon Davis’ Successor?’ (GGS)
And here is a Blake Bell introductory presser Q&A. (Niners Nation)
Which college football program boasts the best head coaching spot? We rank the top 25: http://t.co/xFIL8UWGFj pic.twitter.com/DDEI4lPxkS
— LostLettermen.com (@LostLettermen) May 18, 2015
Charlie Weis could eventually earn $24.5M+ from #NotreDame and #KU while not coaching either http://t.co/4Fej6M9Pbr pic.twitter.com/nJHw5bRQiQ
— Matt Fortuna (@Matt_Fortuna) May 18, 2015
RECRUITING
@HamiltonESPN pic.twitter.com/zETIe5cvEx
— Devwah Whaley (@devwah_whaley) May 18, 2015
OTHER
The thrill of victory. #OnToTheNext #NCAAMWT pic.twitter.com/YRmoCq0yxp
— Oklahoma Tennis (@OU_MTennis) May 18, 2015
Sooners will play Virginia Tuesday at 1 p.m. for a National Championship. UVA defeated Baylor 4-2 to make the final. #BOOMER
— Oklahoma Tennis (@OU_MTennis) May 18, 2015
#Sooners top TCU 4-3! One win away from a national championship. #BOOMER RECAP/PHOTOS: http://t.co/u1m8nN12n1 pic.twitter.com/i120dgON2b
— Oklahoma Tennis (@OU_MTennis) May 19, 2015
OU Softball looking to build on regional momentum. (Transcript)
#Sooners Open Big 12 Tourney Wednesday vs. K-State. Preview: http://t.co/BXXhTjNmGG Tickets: http://t.co/kCCnaLgFbK pic.twitter.com/ppD3JJXN9q
— Oklahoma Baseball (@OU_Baseball) May 19, 2015
Oklahoma at Alabama tops @grahamhays' list of Super Regionals not to be missed: http://t.co/8xaOfRg4NT
— Oklahoma Softball (@OU_Softball) May 18, 2015
These Guys Can Hit. WATCH: http://t.co/BfnZSTh1Qi READ: http://t.co/QdKski2D0V pic.twitter.com/1zmJXM6IJ8
— Oklahoma Baseball (@OU_Baseball) May 18, 2015
#Bikers out of control is my specialty!#JohnStone just GOT the call #GetOffmyHORSE it's time to RIDE! #STONECOLD 2 pic.twitter.com/WMo5zAeudc
— Brian Bosworth (@GotBoz44) May 19, 2015
95 Comments
Good luck OU Tennis – bring it home!
#14 best head coaching spot? What a joke.
Yeah, and the shorthorn job is STILL #1. Given how hyped the saxet job is Strong must be one of the worst coaches around.
The HC at Texas job can be overhyped – “everything’s bigger”, my azz – but that doesn’t mean Strong is a bad coach, let alone one of the worst. I haven’t seen anything that points to Strong being anything but a good coach. It’s highly logical (and correct) to dislike Texas, it’s not logical to assume Strong isn’t good at what he does just because he’s HC there.
Just sayin’.
Stone Cold 2… Stoned & Colder…
Sunday, Jordan penned an article suggesting that OU has an attrition problem.
Well, per a Tulsa World article, the average Power 5 attrition rate, from 2002-2014 is 38%. The averages by conference over this time period, Big 12 40%, SEC 40%, Pac 12 38%, ACC 37%, Big 10 37%.
It seems Jordan’s premise for bashing Stoops is lacking in factual support.
That’s why I said I bet that number is the same almost everywhere in that attrition thread. I see SEC teams drop players like flies without a care in the world. At least when players leave OU for the most part, its because they choose too, and are always granted full release. Which shows OU cares about the players well being, even though they are leaving.
I also said that all this complaining is based on a bad season. When we went 11-2 and just came off beating Alabama. I didn’t see anyone complaining about attrition or what not.
But I guess its the off-season, and we must find something to talk about especially since OU had a bad year.
I’m not sure it’s all about one bad season. I think that many of the regular complainers have more deep seated issues.
A lot of them are like my work buddy, who thinks “we’re OU, and as such we should win the conference 3 of every 4 years, and the NC once every five”. With him, it’s like plug and play on the coach i.e. any decent coach can win big at OU.
In Jordan’s case it seems to be something personal about Stoops. IMO, if OU wins 11 or 12 next year, Jordan will still be penning negative articles of some sort. As long as Stoops is coach.
I love Stoops, but we have to admit he can rub the media the wrong way. Perhaps Jordan tried to discuss something and was offended? Either way, it is irresponsible reporting when it is colored with a personal agenda. I always ask, if not Stoops, name me another coach who is available who can come in and win 10-11 games most years?
Yeah, Stoops is not very good with the media.
In fact I think I saw a televised news conference where he was very brusque and dismissive of Jordan. The Scout guy, Pryzbylo (sp?) as well.
But Pryzbylo doesn’t let it color his reporting. It seems to me that Jordan does. I like Jordan and value his work and opinions for the most part. But periodically he’s good for a good torpedo piece that is totally unfounded, IMHO.
And I’ve seen Bob get borderline hostile with Hoover of the TW. Of course, IMO, Hoover deserves it.
Media relations is not Bob’s strong suit. If I were Castiglione I would require Bob to take ongoing media relations training.
You always have to establish a baseline to see if you are at the norm or plus/minus.
Here’s another data point we need to know: what has been the attrition rate under Stoops’ tenure? Has it always been around 40%?
At the same time, we need to take a look at the Power 5 attrition rate during Stoops’ tenure at OU.
It would be interesting to also see the attrition rate for each school in a Power 5 conferences.
With the coaching changes, Saban from LSU to Alabama, Meyers from Florida to tOSU, Miles from OSU to LSU: what has their attrition rate been at each of their universities and what was the attrition rate before and after their departure?
Just things we should be looking at.
2002-2014 Power 5 Conference Attrition.xlsx
Attrition levels for Power 5 Conferences 2002-2014 signing classes. Updated 3/5/2015
Players lost due to being non-qualifiers, dismissals, transfers, quit playing, never arrived
after signing, injuries.
SEC
School Signed Lost Percent lost Coaches during time
Alabama 331 125 38% Franchione, Shula, Saban
Arkansas 338 139 41% Nutt, Petrino, Smith, Bielema
Auburn 342 153 45% Tuberville, Chizik, Malzhan
Florida 305 109 36% Zook, Meyer, Muschamp
Georgia 308 106 34% Richt
Kentucky 328 138 42% Morriss, Brooks, Phillips, Stoops
LSU 319 112 35% Saban, Miles
Mississippi 333 142 43% Cutcliffe, Orgeron, Nutt, Freeze
Mississippi St 341 147 43% Sherrill, Crrom, Mullen
Missouri 300 105 35% Pinkel
South Carolina 341 150 44% Holtz, Spurrier
Tennesse 327 143 44% Fulmer, Kiffin, Dooley, Jones
Texas A&M 315 131 42% Slocum, Franchione, Sherman, Sumlin
Vanderbilt 282 105 37% Johnson, Franklin, Mason
Total 4510 1805 40%
ACC
School Signed Lost Percent lost Coaches during time
Boston College 266 93 35% O’Brien, Jagodzinski, Spaziani
Clemson 292 92 32% Bowden, Dabney
Duke 272 84 31% Franks, Roof, Cutcliffe
Florida St 311 116 37% Bowden, Fisher
Georgia Tech 248 92 37% Gailey, Johnson
Louisville 297 132 44% Smith, Petrino, Kragthorpe, Strong, Petrino
Miami 310 110 35% Coker, Shannon, Golden
North Carolina 306 138 45% Bunting, Davis, Withers, Fedora
NC State 306 107 35% Amato, O’Brien, Doeren
Pittsburgh 298 113 38% Harris, Wannstedt, Graham, Chryst
Syracuse 307 127 41% Pasqualoni, Robinson, Marrone, Shafer
Virginia 290 115 40% Groh, London
Virginia Tech 305 120 39% Beamer
Wake Forest 257 81 32% Grobe, Clawson
Totals 4065 1520 37%
Big 10
School Signed Lost Percent lost Coaches during time
Illinois 301 122 41% Turner, Zook, Beckman
Indiana 297 131 44% DiNardo, Hoeppner, Lynch, Wilson
Iowa 285 113 40% Ferentz
Maryland 284 105 37% Friedgen, Edsall
Michigan 283 106 37% Carr, Rodriguez, Hoke
Michigan St 293 103 35% Williams, Smith, Dantonio
Minnesota 304 127 42% Mason, Brewster, Kill
Nebraska 294 106 36% Solich, Callahan, Pelini
Northwestern 241 57 24% Walker, Fitzgerald
Ohio St 277 83 30% Tressel, Fickell, Meyer
Penn St 261 96 37% Paterno, O’Brien
Purdue 294 100 34% Tiller, Hope, Hazell
Rutgers 303 113 37% Schiano, Flood
Wisconsin 278 104 37% Alvarez, Bielema, Anderson
Totals 3995 1466 37%
Big 12
School Signed Lost Percent lost Coaches during time
Baylor 306 123 40% Steele, Morriss, Briles
Iowa St 329 141 43% McCarney, Chizik, Rhoads
Kansas 303 114 38% Mangino, Gill, Weis
Kansas St 331 125 38% Snyder, Prince, Snyder
Oklahoma 307 108 35% Stoops
Oklahoma St 330 142 43% Miles, Gundy
TCU 269 86 32% Patterson
Texas 280 107 38% Brown, Strong
Texas Tech 322 148 46% Leach, Tuberville, Kingsbury
West Virginia 326 148 45% Rodriguez, Stewart, Holgerson
Totals 3103 1242 40%
PAC 10
School Signed Lost Percent lost Coaches during time
Arizona 318 127 40% Mackovic, Stoops, Rodriguez
Arizona St 304 101 33% Koetter, Erickson, Graham
California 287 96 33% Tedford, Dykes
Colorado 299 134 45% Barnett, Hawkins, Embree, MacIntyre
Oregon 301 102 34% Bellotti, Kelly, Helfrich
Oregon St 325 136 42% Erickson, Riley
Stanford 242 58 24% Teevens, Harris, Harbaugh, Shaw
UCLA 279 96 34% Toledo, Dorrell, Neuheisal, Mora
USC 263 73 28% Carroll, Kiffin, Sarkisian
Utah 295 125 42% McBride, Meyer, Whittingham
Washington 301 126 42% Neuheisal, Gilbertson, Willingham, Sarkisian, Peterson
Washington St 308 147 48% Price, Doba, Wulff, Leach
Totals 3522 1321 38%
Notre Dame
School Signed Lost Percent lost
Notre Dame 268 81 30% Willingham, Weis, Kelly
All Conferences
School Signed Lost Percent lost
SEC 4510 1805 40%
ACC 4065 1520 37%
Big 10 3995 1466 37%
Big 12 3103 1242 40%
PAC 10 3522 1321 38%
Notre Dame 268 81 30%
Totals 19463 7435 38%
So basically 40% is normal but a little higher than normal for Stoops, but that is not surprising given all the position coach changes.
There is only one assistant left that recruited the current seniors and he (Gundy) is coaching a different position group. Given that, it sounds like Stoops has done a GOOD job of not losing players.
MGB, thanks for posting this information. This is what I’m talking about. Some were quick to latch on and start bashing Stoops. You have to do your research first. These are great data points.
MGB, do you think you could find the attrition rate for a team 3 years prior to that team winning a National Championship?
I couldn’t find such research, as yet. Those numbers are really tedious and challenging to get.
So I did my own quick and dirty on Alabama’s 2012 NC team. It looks like around 33%, which is lower than Alabama’s avg. of 38%
Thanks!
In looking for data, I came across an interesting article, which showed Alabama going after signing day 2013 over the 85 limit by 10. This is after seniors and early entrants were accounted for. I.e. they had to get rid of 10 before fall 2013. They came in at 85, so somehow they got rid of 10.
At least Bob doesn’t run people off. OUr attrition is the normal PT transfers, academic casualties, and miscreant dismissals.
I read from x players that Saban pushed them to Medical status which ended their career and kept them off the 85 roster list. Some said they could still play but Saban basically gave them the option, go medical or leave.
That little practice is not fair, if true. Other schools miss out on players they might potentially land if Alabama was not creating a void that, otherwise, wouldn’t exist.
what is lost is the strategy of over signing kids. 1407 more scholarships during that time is crazy
That’s a very good point, Hemi. Say what you want to about Stoops, he’s always said we are going to do it the right way. He’s a man of integrity: he refuses to over sign for any class.
Urban Meyer and Nick Saban will sell out their own mother to win. Just like the current coach of the Patriots. I will also add in Mike Gundy. Not saying it’s wrong or right just saying
Hemi, where is the 1,407 coming from? What numbers are you subtracting?
He took the total scholly’s for the SEC and subtracted the Big XII’s, not realizing they have 4 more schools.
Okay. Thanks, Big.
So basically Bob gets bashed for having the same wash out rate as Saban?
Thanks for the info!
Yep!
And people around here want to be taken seriously, but can’t get the facts right.
So, the conferences with the highest academic standards have the lowest attrition rates. Why is that not shocking?
I noticed that, too. There are exceptions though: Stanford 24%.
You and I are on the same page with this. With 85 scholarships spread over 5 years, high attrition is a necessity. Not sure why JE doesn’t understand this.
Interestingly that is very close to the transfer rate of students in general. When you add in drop outs,athletes actually have less attrition than the student population in general.
The six year graduation rate at OU is 65.6% for all entering freshmen. Graduation isn’t retention but those numbers imply that the attrition across all freshmen is not very different from the attrition rate for football players. I remember one of my professors back when I was a freshman at OU in 1964 telling our class to ‘look around, about a third of you won’t be back for your sophomore year.’
Wasn’t that article more about a three year period and more directly the 2011 class and how it correlates to the talen drop at OU? That was what I took from it.
Talent drop?
Did you watch our secondary last year? Or our WR’s? Coaching could have played a part but the talent is not where it used to be.
We definitely have a problem at both WR and DB. Notice that they both have new position coaches. So obviously Stoops recognized there was a problem and did something to fix.
However, how much is talent and how much is coaching remains to be seen. If it was primarily coaching then we should see an immediate improvement, assuming we got the right coaches. If it is talent, it will take several years to restock the cupboard.
No problem at WR…Shepard, Westbrook, Andrews, Mead…CB? I agree jury is out.
Last year, is debatable. Lack of talent? or coaching? But with Shepard, Westbrook, and Andrews, I’ll take our three guys over anybody else’s in the NCAA.
regardless of which conference or which team, 40% attrition is too high.. tells me EVALUATION of prospects , nationally, leaves much to be desired….it also speaks of coaches nationwide putting too much emphasis on potential talent versus a guys background, his home environment, his academic capabilities, and his character…..guys who have unmatched physical talent but none of the other components to progress thru college and obtain a college degree aren’t able to stay in a program and help a team……
P5 average is 38%, so basically you’re talking 1 player over the limit going south.
Tough crowd….
Fair enough perspective Stephan. In your opinion we have a national attrition problem.
It’s society nowadays. Kids are sissies. they want to be pampered, cuddled, and be told they are great. When they should be told, life is hard so just deal with it. It’s easier to quit and jump ship instead of working harder and sticking thru it. Pryce Macon and Brandon Shelby come to mind. Stuck it out and played well as seniors.
hemi—that is a small part of it , sure .
Yes it was focused on a three year period. But the premise was that OU had an attrition problem. I.e. that Stoops is losing talent at an alarming and problematic rate, symptomatic of a coaching issue and problems. Jordan even replied to a comment, saying that he thought normal attrition to be in the 25% range. Again implying a coaching problem.
Whereas, based on two separate articles, one by espn, and the TW article, the attrition rates OU is experiencing seem to be the norm for P5 programs over the last decade plus.
Fair. Maybe Jordan was ignorant to what the average attrition rate actually was. Since he did say 25% and it has been stated that is actually is much higher than that. I just didn’t read that peice as a statement against Bob, I took more as an indicator for those classes. Particularly the 2011 class, and the drop in overall talent on the depth chart. The written word is open to interpertation.
The article is titled “OU Football’s Attrition Problem”. I don’t see how that can be interpreted as anything other than a “statement against Bob”
If the attrition in the period covered by the article is within the norm for P5, how can It be a problem?
2011 is not good. 59%. But even with 2011, the three years is 39-40%, i.e. the norm. Look at the espn article. It takes the top 5 recruiting classes from 2007 and the attrition is 52%.
My point is that there is no clear evidence that OU’s attrition in recent years is anything other than normal P5 attrition.
I understand what your saying, and I know what the title was. Like I said “The written word is open for interpertation”. Same article, different conclussions.
Yes the 2011 class is high given the average but probably not statistically significant if you actually ran the numbers. Meaning that, if it is a problem, it is a problem for NCAA football in general not OU specifically.
Of the position coaches that recruited the 2011 class only one is left (Gundy). Which means two things:
1) Some transferred because the guy who recruited them left.
2) The guys responsible for recruiting that class were gotten rid of suggesting that Stoops recognized the problem and took steps to fix it.
Every organization encounters problems, their success is determined by how they deal with them.
The 2013 class has had only a 20% attrition rate. 25 players were signed and only 5 have transferred (Ford, Cavill, LJ Moore) or been dismissed (KJ Young, Q Russell). Kerrick Russell did not qualify, which makes 6, if you want to include him.
But they still have two more years (three for those who redshirt). Not sure what the typical distribution is on those but we will probably lose at least a couple more before they graduate. Hard to tell in advance.
Yes, they do and I would expect to lose a couple more by graduation.
Your point about the position coaches who recruited these players was an excellent one. Some of the coaches had been replaced by 2013, and several others this past off season.
I am at a loss as to why anyone is surprised over the attrition rate of OU and other football programs. It has always been high and likely historically in the 1/3rd range. If you are shocked at the 40%, perhaps you should do some research on John Blake’s attrition rate. My guess is that it was close to the 50% range. It sure wasn’t pretty.
No need to bash anyone for pointing out the high attrition rate as it has been this way for decades. Kids get hurt and can’t play. Kids don’t take care of the academics and they get booted. Kids just don’t pan out and they leave for greener pastures. And, in the last decade or two many kids have left for drug issues.
Agreed. But if the attrition rate is used as direct correlation to a universities decline, that reason to open up the discussion for comparison between Power 5 conferences.
In my opinion, the attrition rate at Power 5 is only going to get higher due to the crazy trend of offering Sophomores. It’s hard enough predicting how a HS Senior will transition to the college level. Now we are having to predict how a HS Soph will transition? Just stupidity in my opinion. But if you don’t get in the game with them early, you could lose out completely, I suppose. What’s next, offering 7th graders?
I think there has already been someone to offer a 7th grader.
Lane Kiffin?
I think so. Remember hearing it, but since the premise seems dumb to me I didn’t pay much attention.
Still waiting on Bob Stoops to offer my 9 year old son, he’s not very fast and really skinny but it’ll happen soon right?
Hey, I have a couple of 4th graders in my class that show a lot of promise. One kid is fast and has a really good vertical, while the other has good closing speed (at least one the playground). Maybe I should send in some highlights?
It was LSU. Granted the kid was 6’0″ 215lb and ran a 4.3 forty. Seriously.
We dang sure need the Boz in Waco but it ain’t a biker problem lol
I know it isn’t legal, but it’s simple: anyone wearing a jackass biker vest? Shoot the bastard or run him over with your truck. ‘Problem’ solved.
Attrition is just an offseason story every year, and since there is less hype this year something has to take a place on the agenda. If OU loses 4-5 starters due to transfer that is another thing but these guys aren’t starters not even Ford(was at one time)
Fact is, Ford saw himself as the 4th team tailback in the spring and decided to go elsewhere. It happens everywhere.
Yeah, which is probably why he was depressed. Good luck to him, I probably wouldve felt the same as he did. Going from 1st to 3rd on the depth chart because of injury
No doubt. But he was actually running 4th behind Anderson as well.
ouch, but Anderson reminds me of De’ Mond Parker when I watched his highlights
except better character
Anderson reminded you of Demond Parker? Not even close to the same type of running back. Sorry
Any reasoning Coach?
Demond is a quick twitch guy with moves.
Anderson is a down hill runner that doesn’t possess the same type of moves or speed. He is probably a better all around back but Demond was the better runner in my opinion. I can’t imagine what he would have done behind some of the lines OU has had.
I really like Anderson but until he puts on pads and plays you never know. Before Ford got hurt, he was playing at a high level.
Man is been a long time Brainiacs!!!!
Have they legalized marijuana in Oklahoma sure seems like it
we go 8 & 5 lose a ton of players and everything is going to be ok…..
Well, I see this train is officially off the tracks.
Some very entertaining theories in here, though.
Oh the off season is going to be so much fun……..
How much fun will it be? (serving up a Johnny Carson softball for you TBDR)
Well unlike at Xerox U no farm animals will be involved.
You gotta admit it, though, it makes for some great reading. I’m hanging on every comment!
Absolutely, I am enthralled by what they’ll come up with next.
Just the facts, Sir!
He can’t let facts get in the way of his agenda, now can he?
https://twitter.com/TheFbBrainiacs/status/600690714188484609
has reynolds visited this guy
FWIW 109 days till kick off and approximately 75 days till media days/start of fall practice.
That’s too long.
charlie weis reminds me of a ceo that drives a co into the ground and comes out a multi-millionaire for his efforts……..he’s got a good agent
The term you are looking for is “politician”.
Hey Jordan, don’t know if you know it but your article on attrition and TFB are quoted in a Jake Trotter article at ESPN.
Here’s the link: http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/99270/oklahoma-roster-takes-minor-hits
John, thanks for sharing.
However, for a professional journalist, Jake Trotter, to write an article without any original thought/contribution is pathetic.
Well, for anything original about OU football I come to TFB. So why not ESPN?
That’s a good one. LOL!
I did see that, but definitely appreciate you sharing!
Free of charge. Appreciate your efforts.