It’s A Quarterback Problem

Image via Sooner Sports

I was talking with K on the phone this past weekend, and he mentioned something that really stuck with me. So I wanted to bogard his take a little bit and make a post of it. And I planned to do so even before Monday afternoon when I heard two former OU greats who host their own radio show open things by dismissing anyone, as they’ve done repeatedly throughout this season, who would dare to criticize Josh Heupel. Mind you they went on to talk about what Ohio State had just done, with their 3rd string QB, to Wisconsin and how incredible it is that they could have three QBs apparently capable of playing at a championship level but OU doesn’t even have one. But don’t you dare question the job Josh Heupel is doing!

I continued to listen and heard them say what this offense needs, what any great offense needs, is a ‘transcendent talent’ at the quarterback position. Well much like me saying Coach X, Y, and/or Z need to be fired, it’s pretty easy to declare a great offense, more often than not, needs a great quarterback leading it. You know what isn’t easy though? Finding that transcendent talent.

But this isn’t about them even though, based on their own comments, they’ve ridiculously contradicted themselves. It’s about Heupel. And last time I checked, he’s paid well into the six figures to not only find, but also develop quarterbacks at the University of Oklahoma.

So with that in mind, I went back to 2006 — Heupel’s second year at OU — and compiled the list of QBs the Sooners have singed thru the 2013 class. I’m going to keep my “evaluation” of things pretty simple. I’ll label each with a ‘hit’ or ‘miss’ and then briefly try to explain my reasoning for doing so.

2006 Sam BradfordMAJOR hit – We don’t really need to waste any time here do we?

2006 Joey HalzleMiss – This one has to be a miss because Halzle never really got on the field for OU, but at the same time he’s a victim of circumstance with one of the best OU QBs in the history of the program coming in this class with him.

2007 Keith NicholMiss – Never really played, eventually transferred to Michigan State…and played WR.

2008 Landry JonesHit – I know there is a decently sized portion of OU fans that would label Jones a miss and while I certainly was one of those who had my issues with his play at times, the guy started for basically four years and set a bunch of records. That’s a ‘hit’ plain and simple. However, I do think it is more than fair to ask just how much better Jones actually got during his time in Norman.

2009 Drew AllenMiss – Again, somewhat similar to Halzle in that he (Allen) came in behind a guy in Jones who started for four years. Wound up transferring, in his fifth year, to Syracuse and didn’t exactly light it up.

2010 Blake BellMiss – I kind of feel like this one could go either way. I mean he did start at one point, but now he’s a tight end. And he clearly never developed into a polished quarterback under Heupel’s tutelage.

2011 Kendal ThompsonMiss – Never really played, wound up transferring to get better shot at playing, showed flashes at times with Utah but looked to be somewhat limited as an all-around QB. Unfortunately, wound up tearing his ACL late in the season and saw something earlier in the week that he could actually wind up transferring again.

2012 Trevor Knight*Miss – Let me be perfectly clear here: *I’M NOT READY TO WRITE THE GUY OFF. But, that said, if there’s one position on the field you simply cannot afford to not know what you’re going to get from on a game-by-game basis, in my opinion, it’s the quarterback position. And I’m just not sure how at this point anyone could label Knight anything other than exactly that type of guy.

2013 Cody Thomas*Miss – The guy has started three games, so let me again be perfectly clear. *I’M NOT READY TO WRITE THE GUY OFF. But in those three games he has looked pretty unremarkable as a passer. And while weather was used as an excuse in the first two, there was no such luxury in his most recent outing. One in which he arguably looked even worse than he did in the first two. Mind you sharing the field with Oklahoma State’s true freshman QB, who was on the road, playing behind a much more suspect offensive line, and looked every bit the part of an upper-classman.

Call me negative all you like. Tell me I’m an idiot like some have done here very recently and I’m sure will do so again. But I’m just present you with the fact here. Granted, my labeling of guys as a ‘hit’ or ‘miss’ is obviously my opinion, so please feel free to assess your own take on things.

And whether you agree with my scorecard or not — one in which, as you can plainly see doesn’t have Heupel successfully hitting on a QB since Landry Jones — just ask yourself one question. You watch all the games…Since Jones, which QB on this list has made significant, tangible improvement/progress under Josh Heupel?

I’ll just wait here quietly.

263 Comments

  • Jordan Esco says:

    Just as a quick aside, I’m probably going to go dark here again for a lil’ bit. Call me crazy, but I’m getting the sense you all are getting tired of me piling on.

    So I’ll try to keep my posts mostly news related & daily links.

    • Billy says:

      Not a bad plan. There is a long off season to scatter the critical articles in there.

    • Charles Suggs says:

      I like your posts and tough perspectives but…I think you went overboard trying to line up as many “miss” ratings as possible. Who else could we have recruited in 2006 (with Bradford) who would not have been a “miss” in your ratings?

      I think you need to go back and take the QB’s who played behind “hits” and never had a chance to start as “N/A”

      • Jordan Esco says:

        Respectively, I’m not sure how you can presume what my mindset was in putting this together. Let alone say I went into it trying to get as many ‘miss’ ratings as possible.

        Other than your caveat (which I also acknowledged, but seems to have been ignored) of playing behind someone, I’d welcome you to make your case for what my ‘misses’ are wrong, or even unfair.

    • BigJoeBrown says:

      Jordan, I really like hearing your perspective. I often do the same thing. What your posts or TFB remind me of is guy’s hanging out in a bar, fire, boat or wherever drinking beer and talking about sports, let alone sports they love.

      People that refuse to hear anything bad or get offended easliy if someone voices a concern, are boring and really have no reason to post comments in my opinion on anything other than perhaps the All Big 12 or Sooners in the NFL sections.
      Guess those same people that complain and are offended by sportstalk…don’t watchTV’s Gameday, ESPN, Fox Sports Southwest, listen to sports radio like The Franchise, The Sports Animal, The Rush, nor read the paper. Becuase guess what, those shows often talk about areas of concern.

      Like I said, this place is awesome beause regular fans can discuss OU football and may or may not agree what you or other posters can say but we can talk about our own opinion. But the people who get offended just bring the place down, that is what talking sports is all about both the positive and the negitive.

      • Jordan Esco says:

        I appreciate the feedback. I’d like to believe that I’m pretty objective when it comes to my assessment of things OU football related, be it positive or negative.

        I know many disagree w/ that and think I have some sort of agenda against the program, coaches, players, etc. Which has always made me laugh as I feel it paints me as being pissed whenever OU wins b/c I’ll have to struggle to find something negative to write about.

        As though I’d spend as much time here or just following OU in general b/c I want them to lose just so I can relish in the negativity. That’s just patently absurd.

        I want OU to win every single game they play. Always. Of course I realize that’s not realistic, but I don’t care. That said, b/c I’m fully aware it’s not realistic, I feel I can separate my irrational desire for them to win every game when writing about the team and how they performed.

        Again, I’m sure many don’t feel that’s the case and that’s fine. I just don’t happen to agree w/ them. 🙂

        • SavageSoonerEsq says:

          Keep telling the truth! I love reading it. In a strange way, it allows me to better come to grips with my anger regarding the season.

        • Easton says:

          Sometimes going underground is good personally nonetheless. We’ll know you haven’t left if you decide to. Do you what you feel is right. But keep writing.

    • SamSooner says:

      Jordan, I’ve said this to you before, don’t apologize because you have passion for OU football. We have to discuss the ugly sometimes. When you know what you have to do to get better, you are much farther along than you would be by not acknowledging it.

      I know I have a tendency to be positive. That’s how I am. However, I enjoy your perspectives. We can all learn more when we have more information.

      We do need better QB play. However, I’ve seen the receivers drop some easy catches. The pick 6 in the KSU game was as much on Durron as it was on Trevor.

      Trevor owns this part: protect the ball: if there’s a possibility it could get intercepted, over throw the receiver if you have to. But put the ball where only your receiver can catch it.

      Durron owns this part: he should have sold this route better and then turned up field. He was too far outside. Even if he catches it, his momentum carries him out of bounds. He should have been lined up to the inside a little more. But, he was lazy with his route.

      • Greg sparks says:

        Disagree on the pick 6, TK didn’t see the cb walk down, and made a pre-snap decision on a run pass option. And made a poor decision I think the throw was even behind the WR, one of the easiest pic6 ever. Noway was that on Neal.

      • Rashad See says:

        The other fact is the play prior when you got a false start you showed the play to the other side of the field so why come back with exact same call and run it to the WIDE SIDE of the field making for a longer throw. Lastly, if he made a pre-snap read that this was the throw to make it was extremely poor as if you replay the play you will see there is a safety over the top therefore allowing the CB to sit on anything short. The real question is why is our OC allowing a rather inexperienced QB run/pass options with that field position?

    • Navy_UDT says:

      Your mission is to lay out your thoughts Jordan, which you do very well. It is my hope you do not go underground but to continue to be a voice that needs to be heard. In each post I read that you write makes an sense to me and I’m sure others.

    • ComancheJoe says:

      Just keep doing your thing Jordan! I appreciate your posts and agree with your point of view a great percentage of the time. I won’t resort to name calling or throwing insults on the occasions that I do disagree.

    • rphokc says:

      …..what happened to the other braniacs………they quit?

    • Shelby is a Patriot says:

      No need for that. Everybody gives their opinion on here. It starts discussions and brings different perspectives to the table, yours included.

  • Sooner Ray says:

    Nothing here for me to argue about. A decent QB can hit an open receiver, a good QB can throw a receiver open. We don’t have a good thrower right now. All these guys lit it up in HS so I have no clue what the problem is.

    • Easton says:

      Right, these guys were promising in high school. I kept having flashes of Cody’s film in my mind as I watched him throw in the games he started in. Just wondering how that changes.

    • Alex Hill says:

      Completely agree. Not to mention, after going back and watching some of Trevor’s games, it seems like he is completely incapable of actually leading a receiver. Almost every single throw is thrown behind the receiver and on a line. And never uses touch to throw it over someone. That’s what I loved about Sam was that he had the pinpoint accuracy that could lead a receiver to more yards. Not to mention in the red zone he dominated because of the touch he had. Either way doesn’t matter just hand the ball of to the freshman freak we got in the backfield!

  • James D-Space says:

    I agree with your evaluations. However, those past QB’s actually had quality receivers to throw to and aside from Sheppard, this team doesn’t appear to have a quality WR after Shep.

    • Jordan Esco says:

      I wouldn’t disagree w/ you on that, but it also really only enhances the problem…as I’m sure you’d agree. I would also add that a great QB can make his WRs look better, whereas I don’t believe that’s the case when you flip those two.

      • James D-Space says:

        You are absolutely correct. Only one WR on campus that may be the exception and he may never play a down for us… DGB

  • Vins says:

    Sorry for this post potentially being in the wrong place,
    but I stumbled onto something that made me feel better about these things. This is not intended to derail this
    discussion as I agree there is a problem that needs to be solved. However, this realization put a smile on my
    face and I thought you all could benefit from this while you wrestle the pig. So, here goes:

    To me, the bedlam game was the Sooner equivalent of a typical
    “Poke Choke”. So, I thought to myself,
    what would we call that? It’s not a “Sooner
    Choke” or anything else I could think of.
    Therefore, the good news here is that the lack of a well-established,
    universally accepted (at least in these parts) term for what happened in that
    game, points to that fact that in the
    long run, we still have the winning team we all think and expect to have.

    To this end, I ran into an OSU fan, who happens to be a
    friend. She started in on me about the
    game and I asked her what the “Poke Choke” equivalent term for the Sooners
    is? She must have thought it was a set
    up for a joke, and she asked for the answer.
    (Now in all honesty, I really thought the Cowboy fans probably had some
    such term that she’d be more than willing to share.) Anyway, I replied that the term didn’t exist
    (with a smug snort) and she left feeling worse and I left feeling better…

    • ComancheJoe says:

      Unfortunately there is, “Chokelahoma”. Fortunately your, “OSWho?”, friend wasn’t bright enough to respond. Typical, “Puke”, fan! BTW, “Texsa SchlongWhorn”, fans are just about as bright

  • Rashad See says:

    Jordan,

    I have found some interesting stats regarding the recent starting QBs at OU and what it bore out is what most would expect. OU is good to near great when we get above average to exceptional QB play. What we currently have with Trevor Knight is average QB play and it produced the expected results when you look at the historical expectations. I will post my findings so that you all can make your own conclusions but Trevor Knight compares most similarly to Landry Jones’ 1st season. It actually also bore out that Blake Bell with his ball security might have been a better option at the QB position for this team this season. It did make me realized that Trevor Knight has been the greatest running threat at the QB position that OU has had since the Stoops era has begun.

    • Rashad See says:

      As I stated previously, I would return with a more concise explanation regarding the QB play at OU and after looking at many factors that measure the play of QBs, I have found that Trevor Knight is not the next great QB at OU and we need to move on to locate that guy. Here are the facts from the ENTIRE BOB STOOPS’ ERA, Trevor Knight this season has only been better than the seasons that Rhett Bomar and Nate Hybl (2001/2002) put together. He was equivalent to the 1st season Landry Jones (2009) played and last year’s Blake Bell (2013) minus the turnovers. Trevor Knight has the 3rd lowest completion percentage, 4th lowest touchdowns to attempts percentage and 4th highest interception to attempts percentage in the Stoops era this season. Simply put Trevor Knight has been one of the worst QBs to start at OU in Bob Stoops time at the university and we must refrain from hanging on to that faithful night in New Orleans and look for our next above average QB if not great one. We need to find a QB who is extremely accurate.

  • KellyB says:

    I agree with Sooner Ray. Not much to argue with facts you presented, Jordan.

    Since 2006, here is where we ranked nationally (by yards) for Rushing and Passing along with our final AP ranking. Not really concrete, but we seemed to perform better when we ranked higher in passing. Exceptions being 2006, 2009 and 2013.

    2014: Rushing (11), Passing (84) — unranked
    2013: Rushing (17), Passing (88) — 6th
    2012: Rushing (57), Passing (4) — 15th
    2011: Rushing (47), Passing (4) — 16th
    2010: Rushing (60), Passing (2) — 6th
    2009: Rushing (73), Passing (10) — unranked
    2008: Rushing (13), Passing (3) — 5th
    2007: Rushing (16), Passing (24) — 8th
    2006: Rushing (10), Passing (50) — 11th

    • Rashad See says:

      I believe that what this truly proves is if you are too one dimensional then you lose more games. Also, this only accounts for yards and doesn’t include what is most important and that is scoring. Finally, turnovers tend to play a large role in success as well.

  • SoonerGoneEast says:

    I think my all-time favorite bull***t line of defense when Stoops or Heupel are criticized is, “players have to execute” or “players have to make plays.” If that is indeed your opinion, then I say to you, bring to me the head of the coach who recruited all these players who cannot make plays.

    Not trying to start an argument, just making a point that success cannot exist in the absence of accountability.

    • LXXIV says:

      That would require the head of every coach in America, since all teams are loaded with players who fail to make plays at critical times. It is the failure to make particular play/s that spell the difference between winning and losing.

      • SoonerGoneEast says:

        Then you can see how ridiculous it is to make that statement then, because in reality it is nothing less than an indictment on the coaches when an environment of accountability exists.

        I’m not saying it’s always on the coaches, but when the problems are consistent and ongoing, when the players have moved on and the problems persist, then it is on the coaches. That to me is what Jordan illustrated above.

    • James D-Space says:

      I agree…. That chaps my ass too. Just a bunch of regergitated coach speak. If it happens occasionally, that’s on the players, but if happens ALL the time, then that’s coaching.

    • Bob Edwards says:

      It seems someone should ask Bob: “Well if its all about the players why are we paying you $5,000,000/year?” If the coaches don’t make a difference, then why do we pay them so much?

      • SoonerGoneEast says:

        Ouch!

      • James D-Space says:

        Nice!

      • D Hunter Sanchez says:

        Overreaction. The King says its the players as well.

        • Bob Edwards says:

          So your saying coaches don’t matter.

          • D Hunter Sanchez says:

            I’m asking to what degree do coaches matter? If the coach gives the player a technique and scheme and the player can’t cover a WR, is it the coaches fault?

          • Bob Edwards says:

            And my point is if they don’t matter that much why are you paying them so much? Bob gets $5,000,000 a year to make sure he has the right assistant coaches and the right players in place. A one time mistake by a player (like Hunnicut who has been solid for his carreer) is on the player. But when year after year you have coaches or players make the same mistakes in the same situations then the coach is not earning his big check.

            The didn’t execute excuse can only be used for so long before you start asking why your players are so unprepared to play at this level. In some cases, I see players who are not sure what they are supposed to be doing. That is on the coaches, because either they haven’t prepared them right or they haven’t sat the one player down and put in who can execute or they haven’t recruited anyone over the last four years who can execute.

          • D Hunter Sanchez says:

            Sanchez executes, Parker showed improvement over the last two games. I really don’t know if its the players, coaching or both? But some players perform others don’t. We can blame coaches for Ahmad Thomas, J Wilson, Knight, but who should we praise for Striker, Rip, Shepard, Phillips, Williams, Shead, Perine etc…get it?

          • Jared William Reininger says:

            Samaje is a true Freshman and probably the best player on the team. Doesn’t speak too highly on our development.

          • Alex Hill says:

            They definitely matter. Players can play as hard as they want to but in the end a really good scheme on one side will beat a really poor scheme on the other. For example, if your don’t have good D-backs then why would you drop 8 into coverage and let the QB sit back there and pick you apart like Petty did. the best way to cover up poor coverage is to get to the QB and make him make quick decisions and possibly force turnovers. Not trying to harp on the past but my point is that the schemes and play calling certainly matter.

          • Super Keith says:

            The coaches do matter, but ultimately the players have to execute. Look at it this way, if BJW and/or Mike works with a kid throughout the week on a specific look they will see in the game, then the kid make a mental error on that look and lets the guy slip behind him (or whatever the case may be), then it’s on the player.

            The coaches can only do so much over the course of a season. It’s up to the players to preform. If the players are ready, then there’s no excuse other than “the player failed to execute”.

            I think this is exactly what we’ve seen this year, and I think a lot of it has to do with youth, especially on defense. However, there have been lapses by experienced players that shouldn’t happen. It’s 4th and 1 and a guy completely whiffs on a block causing the play to be stuffed. All the coaching in the world can be done, but that’s the kind of stuff that happened and it’s game/season changing.

            The more I look back on the season, the more I think there were some guys on the team that thought they could win just by showing up. Not a lot of guys, but some. I think a lot of guys worked hard last offseason, and were prepared for this year, but I still suspect there were some that weren’t. Add that to the youth this team has and you’re bound to get what we saw.

            There’s plenty of blame to pass around to the coaches, but the players are every bit as accountable, if not more.

          • Bob Edwards says:

            I agree that both are accountable. What I don’t agree with is the guy who is charge blaming things on execution. It’s his job to fix the execution problems. I develop software for a living, if my software fails I have to go find out why and fix it, not just say it doesn’t work. If my team fails I am the one responsible for fixing the team. If one of my young developers fails, its my job to make sure he has everything he needs to succeed and if he is incapable of making things work I need to put him where he can succeed or get rid of him if that is not possible. I may not be responsible for the first failure, but if there is a pattern of failure, I am the one responsible for not fixing it.

            When Bob started at OU I remember his response was always something like “we didn’t get them ready to play like we should.” Now it is a matter of “they didn’t execute.” The first is leadership, the second is blame shifting.

            I understand the issues this team has faced. I am not one who is calling for everyone’s head. However, there do seem to be some patterns of problems developing. I wonder if they aren’t as much structural problems as problems with individual coaches. For instance we have co-OC’s and a RB coach who apparently makes all the decisions on which RB plays and when. I can see why Huepel would have problems calling plays if calls a play thinking Perine is in the backfield and it turns out Ross is there. Both good backs, but drastically different styles. The co-OC’s thing could be why we seem to have trouble getting plays in on time, too many decision makers.

            In the end it is Bob’s problem to fix. My problem is when he acts like it is someone else’s problem.

          • disqus_uj44WuVjt2 says:

            Then you are saying the coaches are telling the kid the right stuff and the kid is so stupid that he has to be reminded constantly what he is supposed to do. Seems like that is a failure to recruit players that can walk and chew gum at the same time. What also may be the simple truth is that the coaches don’t know and are telling the kid the wrong thing!!!

          • Mysterio1 says:

            If true, don’t you sit these guys and send the message?

    • Won says:

      I noticed after Baylor that BS couldn’t admit that Baylor had better talent than OU when asked about it in the presser.
      The next question would be why is Baylor getting better players than OU?
      If it isn’t a difference in talent, then it must be execution and/or coaching.

      This program has been blessed with some remarkable athletes and football players.

      I submit that BS has been able to rely very much on the athletic talent of the players and less on coaching strategy. OU was just better, stronger, faster.

      That talent advantage is now gone or at least has been greatly diminished and thus the coaching is now more critical.

      Is BS up to the challenge? Does he have the ability to coach em up?

      • Easton says:

        Baylor is a case study in the new era of football: how a bottom percentile program can become a top ten program. Reminds me of Oregon’s rise. Its a coaching style, its a brand style, its an attitude. And, I will openly admit that I believe the Nike deal for new uniforms, and the consequential branding elevation, is a big, big deal in that rise. That said, Briles lit the fire: coaching, and strength and conditioning coaching in the off season, sprinkle in some weird innovation.

        • Won says:

          I can’t help thinking about how UO has taken the spot that was previously OU. Across many facets: national recognition, recruiting, etc.

          Mr. Phil Nike definitely had a part in it but you also have to give a lot of credit to the rest of the administration and coaching.

          Oh yeah… and the refs who missed the onside kick call in Outzen Stadium. Was that the tipping point?

          • Easton says:

            It WAS the tipping point. I was there, I felt that program growing into a powerhouse in that stadium on that day. The scenery was set. Great point. Interesting to think about how they replaced someone in the top ten, and I think I could imagine that they replaced OU in some sense. They created a legacy out of thin air, but that win at Autzen against the mighty Sooners moved them up in a real way.

          • Easton says:

            And yes, credit coaching and admin, it is the first mover of such results.

    • D Hunter Sanchez says:

      Not doubt it is one of the other. Yet with Stoop’s track record and the fact that there are a number of 3 star talent he put in the league, I would go with it’s the players. How much does Coach evaluate the recruits? Or is it the job of the recruiting coordinator? I mean, go a little further back and ask how did OU compete with a Nate Hybl? A Paul Thompson? Did the coach not develop these guys? No National title sure, but no 8-4 either. I suspect you are forgetting that these team averaged 36 points a game that should not have translated to a 4 loss season. What? Are you going to argue that we need 50 points a game? No It’s the defense that let this team down this year. (I’ll grant it would be nice to have 3 less pick sixes and two more made field goals). But even with Knight being as inconsistent as he was, this team only had one real bad offensive game 14 against Baylor. I say you start talking about the defense.

  • Zack says:

    Jordan, I get that some will criticize the misses you listed because they didn’t get much of a chance. But the 2 who didn’t get much of a chance here and therefore transferred (Allen and nichol) had very little success so I think calling them misses is fair. Jury is still out on kendall as he has one more year to make his case. Halzle is the one I would change to an unknown. He never really saw the field but at least he stuck with ou and is now a GA I believe so I wouldn’t consider that a miss.
    And for bell I wouldn’t give him the miss title. I think he is a great example of a true sooner and I think he deserves to be thought of that way even if he didn’t accomplish much as a qb.

  • soonerjunky says:

    I agree 100% with this post. I would call Bell a miss as a QB, as a football player he has been good, I’ll give him a B. It has been headed in a downward spiral since Bradford left. Do you think David Cornwell would have been a good QB fit? Miss or not he seems to be more of the QB OU is used to having. You can put Bomar, Grady, Rawls as the misses as well.

  • Brent says:

    I feel OU should just go after JUCO QBs from here on out until Heupel leaves. If Heupel won’t develop them, maybe somebody else will do it for us.

    • SoonerfanTU says:

      Can’t imagine there are a lot of JUCO QB’s that end up being good D1 QB’s. Maybe I’m wrong.

      • lebval15 says:

        The SEC is filled with them. Cam Newton, Bo Wallace, Nick Marshall, and Zack Mettenberger were all JUCO QBs. And all of them had considerable success at the D1 level.

      • Greg sparks says:

        The juco WR we just got, his qb is good.

    • Sooner Ray says:

      I understand WHY you feel this way but IMO it would be rare for a JUCO QB to step in and be the team leader as a QB should be. Just not enough time to earn the respect of the team and develop a feel for the receivers.

      • SoonerGoneEast says:

        True

      • lebval15 says:

        Cam Newton, Bo Wallace, Nick Marshall, Zack Mettenberger and Jake Waters all seemed to do alright leading their teams. All were JUCO QBs

        • James D-Space says:

          And one ummmm… Josh Huepel

        • Sooner Ray says:

          That’s why I said rare, not never. There are over 100 starting D1 QB’s every season, over the years there have been some successful JUCO’s.

          • lebval15 says:

            Nobody is advocating getting a bottom dweller JUCO QB (i’m not even advocating getting a JUCO QB at all to be honest), but if you can get one of the top 2 or 3 JUCO QBs in a given year you have a pretty good shot at getting a pretty good one, and OU could get one of the top 2 or 3 if it wanted to. Waters and Marshall were both in the 2013 JUCO class for example (and we didn’t offer either one). That’s the same year we signed Cody Thomas. Last time i remember us going after a JUCO QB hard was 2010 when we tried to get Cam Newton.

          • Sooner Ray says:

            In our current situation I agree some top notch JUCO’s would be worth the risk.

      • Cam says:

        Heupel was a JUCO QB.

  • Jim says:

    Your scorecard is dead on. An elite talent makes the presence known immediately. In Bradford’s spring game prior to the 2007 season, you could see his poise vs the defense. Dude was under control despite the stat line. Comes out vs UNT and goes nuts. Same vs Miami. We knew within 2 weeks we were elite with SB.

    With Landry, we knew we were good enough, but not elite. LJ didn’t have the poise of SB, but had his physical talents and most of his mental aptitude.

    Every other guy we’ve landed has been a miss, and you can see it immediately.

  • Kyle says:

    I’m not sure you can call guys who were back ups as “misses.” Most have gone on to other places (Nichol, Allen, Thompson) with little success but they never received much opportunity here so who knows what could have been. If nothing else they provided useful depth.

  • Kyle says:

    These complaint articles give this site more of an amateur blog feel, which I don’t think this site is. Complaining for the sake of complaining isn’t interesting to read.

    • Carolina_Sooner says:

      I think its fair to say the same thing about your comment.

    • Indy_sooner says:

      Except it is anything *but* complaining for the sake of it. Jordan’s figures are facts, not fiction. What would a professional blog look like? People twiddling thumbs and wait with some sort of blind hope? The issue *IS* there. Complacency is the issue

      • SoonerGoneEast says:

        Exactly. Who here goes to the “professional blogs” for OU Football news before coming to TFB?

        I seldom ever go outside TFB for OU Football news, ever.

        • Easton says:

          second that. I like Stoops’s press conferences on soonersports.com, but those are done for the season for the most part.

      • Kyle says:

        What part of this is fact exactly? There are none, it’s opinion and lacks any “figures” you claim are present. I get my OU news on this site but these aren’t news. They’re complaining and not suggesting solutions. I think the article misses that these struggles began when Heuple moved into the press box. I think Heuple needs to get back on the sidelines and not be the play caller. Offer solutions not just blind complaining.

        • Indy_sooner says:

          Performance on the field, for one. Translates into completions %’s, Passer efficiency, Accuracy and most importantly, consistent performance in the field. The data is there on every single one of those QBs and Jordan does not need to go into semantics with this because the product in the field has been visible and straight forward You are the one arguing for the sake of it. So what if he went to the box? Do we stop coaching QBs? He *is* the QBs coach and he is responsible for the development

          *Edit: I’ll bite. One part of the data set but trend? You bet: % comp + TD/ int ratio from most recent to 1st season

          Trevor Knight : 58.1% 14/9, 59% 9/5
          B. Bell: 60.1% 12/5
          Landry Jones (4 seasons): 66.1% 30/11, 63.2% 29/15, 65.6% 38/12 and 58.1% 26/14
          Sam Bradford: 67.9% 50/8, 69.5% 36.8

          • Kyle says:

            Now we have some figures. Unlike in the original article. These are facts, the article is purely opinion that is being misrepresented as fact.

          • Indy_sooner says:

            I think I understand the premise of your original question, but I didn’t need to even look this data up to understand what Jordan meant.
            Even if it is an opinion he has every right to voice it. Personally, I don’t like sunshine pumping when things are good and then ignoring things when it’s really bad. Have to take the good with the bad.

          • Kyle says:

            I never said he shouldn’t voice his opinion or anything implying that.

          • Indy_sooner says:

            “These complaint articles give this site more of an amateur blog feel…” Your statement contradicts that. You want him (and TFB) to desist from writing complaint articles that make this into an amateurish blog, no?

          • Kyle says:

            Incorrect. My opinion on the article does not say they shouldn’t write them but my feeling is the writing is amateur and complaint articles are not interesting when the purpose is simply to call for someone’s dismissal and not provide any real input or information.

          • Rashad See says:

            Kyle,
            How would you address the lack of development, inconsistent playcalling and recruitment issues OU faces? Would you gladly take a demotion at your job without looking for gameful employment elsewhere? What I am saying essentially is if they demote him then he is effectively being fired as the OC and if he chooses to accept that he forfeits any possible opportunity at a head coaching position in the future.

          • Kyle says:

            I think his job as OC and QB coach need to be evaluated separately for this arguments sake. His play calling has been inconsistent and often frustrating and I would agree to remove him from that role. If that means he leaves in one way or another then so be it.

            As a QB coach I think it’s a more interesting issue than hit/miss- fire him. How has play declined since he moved to the box to become OC? How has play changed since the pass happy days of Sam and Landry? How has play changed since the shift to mobile QBs? How have other similarly rated QBs done in this time? Going back to high school, are they missing on mechanical flaws or missing on how they project QBs? Is it development? Is it players around them? There isn’t as much NFL talent on the team. Does he identify the QBs we recruit? Provide statistics or some legitimate analysis. Including career backups does not support the argument that he is a poor coach, every program has those.

            It can be a much better article but the author unwilling or unable to go deeper in his writing.

          • Rashad See says:

            I believe that the main issue lies not with JH as much as with OU having decided to make a significant offensive philosophical change but yet having asked the same people who ran a different system that they were comfortable with to change. JH is confident and comfortable in a passing system and yet we are asking him to be something he is not. The reason change is to be made is not because JH is a bad coach but he is not the good coach for the system we are running. He doesn’t trust the system and that’s the reason for the inconsistency in playcalling and lack of development of recent QB as he is trying to learn as he goes. For us to find the success we yearn for, we need someone who is an expert in the type of system we want to run not someone we are comfortable working with. When we saw our greatest successes we went and got guys who were experts in the systems they ran (mike leach). Now I feel like we have settled for being comfortable rather than being uncomfortable in our pursuit of greatness.

          • Kyle says:

            I agree with that and think OU has a choice to make with him. Either switch back to pocket passers and throw the ball or move on from Josh and stick with the mobile QBs and running scheme.

        • Jordan Esco says:

          Good lord. I posted an entire story yesterday written solely as a suggested solution after this same criticism was offered. What solution do you need written out for you here?

          THE SOLUTION = JOSH HEUPEL NEEDS TO GO, IMO

          Not entirely sure how that hasn’t been made abundantly clear, but if you needed it clearly spelled out hopefully I’ve now done that.

          • Gary Robbins says:

            Can you spell it out again. I read somewhere once that people had to repeat something like 22 times before they could remember it. You have probably reached the 22 times level in the last few days. Thank you for all your posts and insight. Do what you think is right. I kind of wonder if JY has cut back on his posts for some reason. I personally enjoy all views and opinions of everybody. I save my arguments for “happy hour” on the hill where the 1st liar doesn’t have a chance.

          • Sooner Ray says:

            It’s normally 3 times, but 22 times is required up there on the hill. 🙂 Baker’s not up there telling lies again I hope!

          • Gary Robbins says:

            If his mouth is open he is a lying ( just joking.) We have one guy out there who has told some of the same jokes probably 20 times and we still don’t get it, oh well.
            On a serious note is the problem at quarterback a three fold type problem? Our coaching, our quarterbacking, our wide receivers (overall)? Is there an easy fix?

          • Sooner Ray says:

            That’s the problem I see Gary, it’s not just one thing that can be addressed and fixed,there are problems all over the field that are showing their ugly face. Even though we are so close to being great, until all the problems are solved (however it takes) we will continue to struggle with teams that we should beat.

          • Kyle says:

            You’re a sensitive little fellow. Heupel llaves and we have the same QBs so is it development, recruitment? What needs to change other than just firing someone?

          • TalkingPoints says:

            You guys were having an interesting little disagreement there and then someone had to go and make it personal. Thumbs down.

          • boomersooner says:

            awesome 1st comment. thanks for helping out

          • Kyle says:

            I agrees and I apologize, it was unnecessary, inappropriate and made out of frustration with the disrespectful tone I perceive in Jordan’s previous response.

            To me the decline of the position has multiple factors to explore but the article has a narrow focus that ends in firing someone as if that cures the ills. There’s a multi – faceted argument to be had over the QB position and coach and I’m disappointed the writer cannot achieve that.

          • Navy_UDT says:

            Kyle, I’m afraid you are asking a person to withhold opinions that may not match yours. Well, Jordan has every right to voice his as much as you do. This is a BLOG, where people voice streaming thoughts about what they are feeling at that particular time. Frankly, your opinion is not in line with mine but I’m not making personal attacks about you.

          • boomersooner says:

            i don’t think he’s trying to shut jordan up(good luck with that….hayo. huh? right?) i think he’s just trying to get some folks to come up with solutions to problems instead of just piling on type thing. not trying to speak for him but that’s what i get out of it

          • Jerry Rivera says:

            I think Kyle is tired of the negativity (Sorry if I’m wrong Kyle). I didn’t hear about this site until Jordan came over from the c&c machine, and I’m glad he did. I have not been on that site for quite awile, but I’m on this site daily. I LOVE the insight into recruits, and high school athletes this site provides us. I also enjoy the comments by all the OU fans, and the posts that open up good conversations, and or a good debate. When all is said and done, we are talking about young men in their late teens, or early twenties that are going to school while busting their tails on the practice field. We as Sooner fans get to enjoy the pageantray, pride, and success that most schools wish they had. Every player, and every coach on this staff has been a part that, and for that I’m thankful. BOOMER SOONER!

          • boomersooner says:

            very very well said. BOOMER SOONER!!

          • Jordan Esco says:

            I’m not saying I am right and everyone else is wrong, but at this point I do not believe you can salvage Heupel. I think it’s both recruiting & a lack of development. I think he has to be let go and someone else brought in to replace him.

          • Cory Pedersen says:

            Easy killer

        • Rashad See says:

          Kyle,
          Here is the truth from his mouth (Heupel). When asked about going to the sideline he stated that he didn’t feel it was the best thing for him to do. You have to acknowledge that josh has exhibited a better feel for calling a pass based offensive game plan and that the run based game plan is not his forte. He struggles to make dynamic/effective calls in the run game during crunch time. Finally, I think we would all like to believe that people love our university enough that they would like to be there in spite of their role but I just have a hard time believing that JH will take a demotion from OC to QB coach and hang around.

    • DCinAZ says:

      This site is about recruiting. Jordan pointing out recruiting busts or “miss” patterns is a legitimate facet of recruiting, and definitely noteworthy.

    • Jordan Esco says:

      How is this complaining for the sake of complaining??? QB is a serious problem. This is one person’s assessment of said problem. So, again, I ask…how is this complaining for the sake of complaining?

      • Kyle says:

        You offer no solutions. What needs to change? What can be done better? Is it evaluation in recruiting? Is it development?

        • Jason Argo says:

          Wait for it…it will come.

        • Boom says:

          It’s called having an offensive identity/scheme. JH doesn’t have one. Put a good scheme to match the QB talents and you will have results. Seems like it worked for Boykin.

        • Jordan Esco says:

          Read this: https://thefootballbrainiacs.com/ou-oklahoma-sooners-football-coachin-staff-bob-stoops-past-excusing-present-follow-up

          If you’re still serious w/ these questions after having done so then I’m afraid I can’t help you.

          • Kyle says:

            I’ve read it and I think you could do a more in depth analysis of the position. I’m sorry you are unable or unwilling to do so because I think a more thorough analysis would be excellent. There are many facets to explore within this subject.

            How has play declined since he moved to the box to become OC? How has play changed since the pass happy days of Sam and Landry? How has play changed since the shift to mobile QBs? How have other similarly rated QBs done in this time? Going back to high school, are they missing on mechanical flaws or missing on how they project QBs? Is it development? Is it players around them? There isn’t as much NFL talent on the team. Does he identify the QBs we recruit? Provide statistics or some legitimate analysis. Including career backups does not support the argument that he is a poor coach, every program has those.

            I think it’s a more interesting issue than hit/miss- fire him.

          • Kyle says:

            That’s disappointing to me that you won’t support your work (especially since it’s unlikely to me that Heupel is dismissed) because this could be an interesting topic for discussion. To each their own, have a nice day.

          • Jordan Esco says:

            I’ve supported it past the point of exhaustion. Nothing seems to satisfy you, so I’m tapping out. Best of luck.

          • Kyle says:

            Ha. Firing someone, suggesting a replacement and magically “poof” all the problems are fixed is not supporting it past the point of exhaustion. It’s not supporting anything. The hit/miss list is weak support at best but best of luck to you too.

          • Jordan Esco says:

            Whatever you say, man.

          • kcsoonerfan says:

            Start Kyle’s Sooner blog and write whatever you want.

      • Navy_UDT says:

        Jordan, he’s looking for an argument when one is not necessary. Keep on posting Jordan, I enjoy your writing and thoughts, for God sake don’t stop because of this mental midget. Ooops, now I’m getting personal.

  • SoonerfanTU says:

    This isn’t directed at you Jordan, but if we are going to use Sam as the basis for comparing QB’s, nobody is going to measure up. I mean, you are talking about a guy that had two monster seasons, one of which may be the best ever for a college QB. We can’t expect to have another Sam back there. Hopefully we’ll find one, but we don’t need a Sam to make the Playoff.

    Heupel. White x 2. Bradford. Those are the QB’s the last 4 times we played for a NC. I think it’s much more realistic to find a Jason White type guy, than a Sam Bradford type guy.

    It’s not like all of the teams winning NC’s recently are trotting out starting NFL QB’s. Bama certainly wasn’t. Tebow wasn’t an NFL guy. The lefty from USC hasn’t really started much in the NFL. LSU’s weren’t. The only ones in recent memory I can think of are Cam and probably Winston, though I don’t know that I see Winston excelling in the NFL either.

    I don’t want to have to rely on defense quite as much as some of those Bama teams, but I also don’t think we need a world beater at QB. We just haven’t struck the right balance in several years. I still think we were good enough offensively once or twice with Landry, we just had a craptastic D those years.

    • Sooner Ray says:

      I would take a Jason White every year if possible, one of my very favorites for sure.

    • SCKSChief says:

      To say “we’ll never have another Sam” is, I believe, selling the university short. I’m sure tOSU thought “we’ll never have another Braxton.” Oh wait, they have THREE this season! It’s possible to find guys that good and maybe better. It all boils down to talent eval and development.

      • Easton says:

        THREE.

      • SoonerfanTU says:

        Pretty silly to compare Bradford to Braxton.

        I’ll say it again. Sam Bradford might have had the best season EVER for a college QB. And you compare him to Braxton? Come on.

      • SoonerfanTU says:

        And lol at you trying to compare that 3rd string guy that made ONE start to Braxton. Let’s see what he does against Bama first, okay?

        • Easton says:

          I am looking forward to seeing what happens. Cardale Jones made it look easy against UW. I mean it was astonishing to see.

      • SoonerfanTU says:

        And one more for good measure…..Braxton probably isn’t even in the top 3 QB’s all time at Ohio State.

  • Randy White says:

    I can’t disagree with your assessment and it got me thinking. Trevor lit it up against Alabama and then this season has struggled. What has changed? WRs is the obvious difference. I can’t help but wonder if that’s not the biggest problem. Guys running the wrong route or not getting open will make even a great QB look horrible. Just a thought!

    • SoonerfanTU says:

      That’s a really good point on the WR’s. A really good one.

      I guess that makes having DGB eligible next season HUGE for this team. Because I’m not sure we’re bringing anybody else in that will be an immediate impact type player.

      Had such high hopes for some of those WR’s a year or two ago.

      • Dallas Johnson says:

        WR’s make a HUGE difference especially the guys that go out there and make plays.. however if you watch a lot of the film.. Trevor stares down certain targets and very seldom comes off his primary target.. Even the games we won.. I watched the Tulsa game the other night and he finds a target he likes and very seldom goes through his progressions.. I personally don’t think it was a WR issue as much as a QB issue.

    • Indy_sooner says:

      I sort of agree on WRs. Look at Shep. Yes, he’s a stud, much like Saunders, but more than often, he was the only one that run really crisp routes… almost effortless. Landry had the same thing with Broyles. When he went down, the WRs production went out. If we can get DGB AND Dede, this team looks soooo much different.

      That being said, I also think TK’s month-long of 1 on 1 with 3 healthy receivers and undivided attention from JH prior to the sugar bowl is what helped most here.We knew we couldn’t run vs. Bama, so we spent time working on the only thing we had chances of success with.

    • DCinAZ says:

      I think we definitely have issues at the WR position and I think that speaks to our poor PR performance this year and why Sanchez is out there fielding “fair catch” punts. I think it’s because Sanchez has better ball handling skills than our WRs (Neal, Walker, and Young) and that’s why he’s out there. No other options with Shepherd being hurt and his mom not wanting him fielding punts. Kinda sad but that’s where we are…..

    • Daryl says:

      But what about the 10 games before Alabama? With those same WRs Trevor only looked like a very good passer once in my opinion. Yes the WR core may not be as good but I wonder what WR numbers would look like if Trevor hits throws he should have all year. I think we all agree Trevor missed a lot of open guys throughout the year. Even little things like bubble screens. Often the ball is t I. Front where the WR can just run but he has to spin spring to catch.

      End of day since Wilson left we have gone down hill. I said it then and I am saying it now. You miss Wilson now when most wanted to run him out of town. He only led called plays that created the most prolific offense in CFB history.

      Time for a change

      • Pokerman says:

        You’ve conveniently forgotten that most of those 10 games prior to Alabama were started with Blake Bell at the helm. He played significantly more minutes last season than did Knight.
        You’re also ignoring the fact that both our QB’s this year are underclassmen without significant experience and playing a watered-down offense which gave them practically no chance to be successful.
        You’re also ignoring the fact that our WR corps (excluding Shepard) was abysmal this year. Whether you attribute that to talent level or coaching is debatable, but my opinion is that it’s 80% coaching and that Norvell just isn’t cutting it.

        • Daryl says:

          T. Knight3/7284.0003.7T. Knight14/201718.61193.2T. Knight8/14614.40077.7T. Knight10/201196.01229.0T. Knight11/28863.13152.7

        • Daryl says:

          Trevor had 2 good games last year. K state and Alabama with Shepherd and Saunders on the field! I like the character of Trevor Knight. I would want my daughter to marry him, but I don’t think he has shown he can be a winning college QB. It sounds like he is a practice giant, but it is more than evident in the game that he stares at one WR and if he is not open he doesn’t know what to do. that is not a WR issue its a QB/Coaching development issue.

          PS Bell’s first start was 1000% better than Knights and I would also say that Bell has had many more “clutch” moments. Has Knight had even one clutch moment?

          • boomersooner says:

            bell’s 1st start was tulsa right? that don’t tell much. i don’t think you can get the bama game out of just anyone. that was something special to watch. i agree with the developing people. i don’t know if we’ve just struck out in regards to kids who’ve hit their ceiling or we just aren’t developing em past a certain point. yes, you’ve got to be able to coach him out of locking on his #1 read. knight’s clutch moment was finding sterling vs bama when he kept the play alive as long as possible. that was awesome. and also, we don’t have saunders and shepherd’s been hurt for most of the year. still need other guys to step up but losing those guys hurt more than any of us woulda thought

          • Cary Newman says:

            Of course he’s a practice giant. He’s throwing against our secondary.

      • Coach JK says:

        Yes it is time for a change, a big change and it starts with Bob!!! He is too comfortable, complacent, and has gotten lazy!!! no player development and he does not coach with an edge anymore!! It is also widely rumored that him and JH hate each other and it is fact that all of the offensive players cannot stand JH!!!

  • James says:

    A lot of truth to what you say but the one think about Trevor that concerns me the most is how he locks on to his receiver and stares him down before throwing. He has done this from day one and continues to do so. I think he’s talented but it won’t matter how good he is if he continues to do this he won’t cut it as a starting QB.

  • James says:

    Randy, I meant that as a reply to your post.

  • Cincysooner says:

    Jordan, i have brought this up on other boards and i will bring it up here. I think you are hitting just the tip of the problem. I believe that Coach Heuple has done a very poor job in player development since he has been given a substantial increase in his job duties (i.e. QB coach to Co-Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach). I would go back even further:

    Heuple – Quarterback Coach
    2007 – Sam Bradford (improved performance from 2006)
    2008 – Sam Bradford (improved performance from 2007)
    2009 – Landry Jones (1st year)
    2010 – Landry Jones (improved performance from 2009)

    Heuple – Co-Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach
    2011 – Landry Jones (did not improve performance over 2010)
    2012 – Landry Jones (did not improve performance over 2011)
    2013 – Blake Bell and Trevor Knight (1st year each)
    2014 – Trevor Knight (did not improve performance over 2013)

    My point is ever since Josh Heuple went to game planning and QB development, our QB has suffered. The same correlation could be made with our WR and Jay Norvell. My solution would be to have an Offensive Coordinator that is not responsible for any other position, and move Josh back to only QB coach and Jay back to WR coach. If they don’t like it, then say so long to them.

    • SoonerGoneEast says:

      In all fairness, it should also be noted that QB development dried up or at least slowed considerably when Kevin Wilson left. Heupel gets a lot of credit for Bradford that is likely not deserved in my opinion.

    • thedeez says:

      In truth, Trevor Knight did improve from first year to second, though it seemed to have as much due to experience than anything else.

    • SoonerfanTU says:

      Not every QB makes a noticeable jump every single year he is on campus. Some guys simply get to their ceiling faster. IMO, that is what Landry did.

      • DCinAZ says:

        I agree. Landry got to his physical peak as a QB early but the uncoachable part, which is between the ears, Landry never could make progress mentally. He was terrified of defenders and you can’t coach that out of a guy.

  • Exiled In Ohio says:

    Jordan, a poster below questioned your hit/miss system because players behind Bradford were automatically misses. I tend to agree; I think a better measure is did we have a hit/miss by year. In other words, did we have a quarterback who was capable of leading a NC caliber team?

    I would argue that 2007-2008 and 2010-2012 we did. I know there are a lot of Landry-haters out there, but surrounded by a better team he could have reached the Promised Land. In 2009, Landry wasn’t quite ready … but had to be thrown in as a freshmen because of Sam’s injury. So, really it has only been the past 2 years that QB play has been not good enough.

    Cincysooner’s data below is pretty interesting; I can see where a case could made that JH’s quarterback development has fallen off since he started calling plays. But my conclusion is that there is really not enough data to make a strong conclusion on whether or not JH can develop QBs. As fans, we are very qualified to know that QB play has fallen off the past 2 years. I just think we don’t have enough information to be able to accurately put our finger on why that has happened.

  • Jared William Reininger says:

    I am all for looking at players and saying, he didn’t play motivated, or he didn’t “execute”, but is this still not a reflection of the coaches. So much so in College Athletics. If it was the Pros and the GM is bringing in trouble makers and guys with poor work ethic, etc, then I could see this defense. But these guys are picking who they want. I am not even saying it is easy to always tell who has that “it” mentality. The BOZ factor of just wanting to win and willing to kill themselves just to get the job done, but as a coach, you should bare that responsibility and if a player can’t be motivated….well, thanks for playing, we are gonna give your scholarship to someone who will.

    The thing is every defense I have heard of him is coming from people who played with him. A lot of the players who he coached seem way more silent on it, not to say completely or in a totally positive way if they are saying anything, but it can be hard to take off the blinders and say, yeah, a guy I went through a great deal with and who was a teammate and brother is not doing his job can be difficult. But he has not left anything to be defended in my opinion.

    This is my contention…. who is our best player on the team…..I say the entire team……

    Samaje?

    I think so…..he is a true freshman…..what does that say about development.

    Just food for thought.

  • lebval15 says:

    It will be even more interesting if Mayfield (a guy we passed over in HS in favor of these guys) ends up the starting QB next year for us.

  • Paul Warfield says:

    I think it is also worth noting that Chuck Long is the coach who identified Bradford and offered him the scholarship. So while Josh does deserve credit for working with him as his quarterback coach, it is also true he isn’t the guy who had the eye for talent when it came to Sam.

    You also have to ask yourself how much Kevin Wilson had to do with Sam and Landry’s development given he was the guy who was calling the offense and putting together the plan of attack every week. Just look at the difference between 2007’s offense and 2008’s, to me that clear difference is a product of a coach protecting and developing a quarterback.

    Landry was making a steady improvement through 2009 and through 2010….coincidence that his play dropped off in 2011 under Heupel and his numbers were way off??

    • Sooner Ray says:

      I agree with your statement and offer my opinion on Bradford. I think he could have stepped onto any campus and produced. He was a natural that only needed the play book, no coaching required.

  • Glocal Sooner says:

    I agree with Jordan here. I also agree with those who suggest our WR’s are partly to blame. I think it’s a bit of both. I think a QB can make WR’s look good. On a grander level, just look at what the top NFL QB’s (Manning, Rodgers, Brady) have done with some no name receivers (if an NFL receiver can be a “no name”…ha!) I also think a great receiver can make a QB look good. I agree with the below example of Landry without Broyles, our current QB’s without Shepard. Everyone know Calvin Johnson is the best receiver in the NFL, if you compare what he’s done this season, you’ll see a direct correlation between his success and Stafford’s success. When Megatron is not 100%, Stafford really struggles.
    So it’s easy to put all this on the QB, and I think that’s where we should start but the WR’s need to be better. So Heupel and Norvell have work to do. I do think our QB woes this season are magnified by Ohio St having 3 really good ones apparently. Any time you see another program do that in the same position you appear to be struggling in, it hurts.

    • boomersooner says:

      i agree with you on the injuries. take baseball for example. if your #1 starter were to get hurt, you are now asking your #2 to go up against #1’s and on down the line. if you have 2 or 3 guys in your rotation that could be considered #4’s(like if you have no 3 but instead have 2 4’s) then you could be in some serious trouble. same thing with wr’s, like you said. #2’s now get marked by #1 corners and so on and so forth. i love the way some of the d’s are doing it nowadays. they take their 2nd or 3rd best corner and give him safety help against the #1 and take their best corner and put him on the #2 wr

  • ratman says:

    Heupel did not recruit Bradford. Chuck Long did. Heupels qb recruits are Bell, Thompson, Knight, Thomas and Hansen. Mayfield recruited himself.
    Tell me which of the qb’s that Heupel recruited have developed?? They are all very average qb’s. They are all great kids, but not qb’s you can win championships with.

    • Jordan Esco says:

      My inclusion of Bradford re: Heupel was really more along the lines of development, fwiw.

    • SCKSChief says:

      Good note there. One thing I would point out regarding Mayfield, I think he was as good as a Freshman walk on at TTU as Knight was THIS season at OU…after two years as a starter (yeah, yeah, one was part-time…it counts! LOL). That is evidence to no development.

  • j l says:

    I dont think its a QB talent problem, I think its a QB development problem. I highly doubt we completely whiffed on 3 top 10, 4 star QB’s.

    I feel like knight would do very well at some place like oregon, fsu, etc. Schools that have proven they can develop QB’s.

    I think he could even do well under heupel, if heupel was QB coach only.

    • DCinAZ says:

      Somewhat agree but development isn’t making these QB’s throw balls 8 yards over WR’s heads or on a rope straight into a DB’s butt. These QB’s have terrible accuracy issues and I don’t understand how they can be that bad and get a D-1 offer.

      • j l says:

        cody thomas had 20 D1 offers, including schools like bama, usc, auburn.

        So either 20 teams misevaluated him, or we have done a bad job developing him. I think its the latter.

        • DCinAZ says:

          Yeah but his accuracy is horrendous. I don’t consider “accuracy” a developmental issue. That’s a basic fundamental that a QB either has, or doesn’t have. I don’t see how you develop a QB to be more “accurate”. It’s not that complicated. Put the ball on target or at least near a WR. These guys do neither. I don’t see how you fix that.

          • j l says:

            well, thomas didnt have that problem in high school. it dosent matter the level of competition you are playing, you can either hit an receiver or you cant. He was able to do it just fine before coming here.

            Its possibly just a mental issue, because he has shown in the past he has the physical tools.

            Maybe heupel has him overthinking things?

            i cant sit here and pretend i know what the issue is, but all our QB’s have the same problem.

            Do you think we have whiffed on every single QB since jones? Thats pretty hard for me to swallow.

          • DCinAZ says:

            Understand your hesitance to swallow something that hard to believe but the evidence sure points in that direction. I don’t see how programs like OSU and tOSU can just plug in their 3rd stringers and keep chugging along while we can’t even find a decent starter. I’ve never seen a roster of QB’s this bad that wasn’t on a WAC team. It’s shocking how much we resemble Texas in Brown’s decline; a clowncar show defensively and a stable full of derping Case McCoys at QB. It’s surreal…..

          • j l says:

            i think that more proves my point than anything. All of suckhio states QB’s can play, ours cant. Did they grab 3 good kids, while we grabbed 3 bad ones?
            Does their QB coach simply develop what comes in, while ours wastes potential?
            I think its the latter.

            Lets say for instance we somehow flipped kyler murray, and he came in here and just stunk up the joint. Would you call him yet another bust?

          • DCinAZ says:

            Those are good questions. I just don’t see how our QB’s are having the accuracy issues they are. You can’t coach better accuracy that I know of. I’m a defense guy but I’ve never seen a coaching session that improves QB accuracy. Decision making, footwork, and technique? Yes. Accuracy? No. I can’t blame Heupel for horrible throws that are way off the mark. How do you have a QB that misses the entire endzone on a hail mary? I just watch these guys and they all fail the eye test miserably.

          • soonerkp says:

            Improve mechanics and footwork and you improve accuracy. Even quarterbacks in the NFL work on adjusting release points and arm angles, etc, to improve accuracy. This is why George Whitfield makes so much money.

            I’m no QB expert, but accuracy isn’t a constant for a players whole career from Pop warner to the pros.

            Sam Bradford HS senior year: 59%
            2007: 69.5%

          • D Hunter Sanchez says:

            Thanks for that! Was wondering about Sam’s stats.

          • j l says:

            Teaching them bad throwing mechanics will hurt accuracy.

            You can overcomplicate things, so the QB is thinking more than he is doing. Thats going to affect him throwing the ball in general.
            Footwork is HUGE for a qb. Bad footwork will kill a QB’s accuracy.

            Now im not saying knight would be a 70% passer at another school. He still is inconsistent even when he is throwing the ball well. Some of his accuracy issues are on him for sure. But instead of a 55% passer, i think he could be in that 60-65 range, which we could be ok with.

            Watch thomas’ high school tape, hes throwing dimes. 64% passer in high school.
            I just dont get how he could get that much worse.

            im with you, they fail the eye test for me too, but i think they could with some changes.

          • akryan says:

            decision making, footwork, and technique is what makes you accurate. Looking at their HS tape, they can (or at least could) put the ball on point. I think these kids are actually regressing once they get here because they aren’t being prepared well enough on their decision making, footwork and technique.

          • akryan says:

            There’s a lot of technique that goes into that. Squaring shoulders, driving off the correct foot, etc. Every QB that’s ever played has been coached up to become more accurate.

        • Sooners W says:

          Probably mis-evaluated or underestimated his commitment to baseball which makes his ability to improve in football more difficult.

          • j l says:

            i dunno, he played baseball in high school too. The issue that makes me think its on the coaches, is that only has he not improved, hes regressed. Maybe its on cody, but thats been a consistent trend lately. The only constant in all this is the coaches.

          • Sooners W says:

            Many play multiple sports in HS, not the same at the next level. Otherwise, I’d be in the NBA and have the world 400 meter hurdle record.

          • akryan says:

            No way that holds up. Jamies Winston plays baseball. It hasn’t effected him. John Elway played baseball so well he was a first round draft pick by the Yankees. There are a lot of football players that dual sport in baseball and football.

          • Sooners W says:

            Newsflash: He ain’t Winston or Elway. While there are many football players that are 2 sport athletes, CT appears to be one that needs extra help in football. Reps in spring practice, individual QB coach, whatever, the time he puts into baseball is time he is not improving as a QB.

          • Indy_sooner says:

            Now you are getting pedantic. Cody is not the first multisport athlete and won’t be the last. I’ll do you one better… This apply to Brandon Weeden too? I don’t want to get anecdotal but there is no way we can sit here and attribute the dismal delivery on the field to bb. Experience, perhaps.

      • OUknowitscomin says:

        Fair point. It’s like when fans blame coaches for a player doing things they are OBVIOUSLY not coached to do. Comments like ‘he threw into triple coverage, obviously lacks coaching’ – Pretty certain they are not coached to throw into triple coverage – players just do things in heat of moment sometimes

        • SCKSChief says:

          With regard to on-field mistakes, it’s either coached or allowed. Period. Either way, it’s on coaching. Either you’re teaching them to do incredibly dumb stuff…or you allow them to repeatedly do it. Which is exactly what OU fans are seeing out of QBs these days…hell, the whole team!

          • OUknowitscomin says:

            You said it, the whole team. That’s what I’ve seen this year, with exception of secondary. The mistakes have been horribly timed and spread amongst the best players even. Do you yank the whole team? I know the coaches don’t teach the mistakes that are being made, that’s just crazy to me. Regarding QB play specifically, I think we found out pretty clearly why TK wasn’t getting yanked. That’s not bad coaching decision, rather the next guy just isn’t ready. Mis evals? Perhaps. Some just don’t develop like many would hope – including the other 20-schools that offered them.

          • D Hunter Sanchez says:

            NOT TRUE. So Knight was coached to throw a pass from his end zone on an out? Coach said it was a read option, you don’t throw it if there is any doubt. Knight did not read the play due to thinking he has to rush the play being in his own end zone. That’s not coaching.

  • Herman Bubbert says:

    I don’t think this is a simple issue, but I would definitely agree that the people who divorce Heupel from the reality of the QB situation are focused more on defending this abysmal coaching staff than actual reality.

    I don’t think good evaluations have been made in all the cases – Kendall Thompson, Knight, etc. I certainly don’t think the QBs are developing as players. At all.

    And I believe a MAJOR part of the problem is the square peg offensive coordinator making a classic coaching mistake – trying to force players into his system, which mimics his beloved Leach Chuck and Duck – instead of building systems that fit his talent.

    • Jordan Esco says:

      +1000

      • Boom says:

        I know Bolt is a great 100meter runner, but I think he should be our miler. I will work with him on his weakness and make him great in time. Why focus on his strengths.

    • Fear The Magic says:

      Well in all fairness to the coaches, they did fit the system to TKs talent by going with the zone read……….but then of course once they installed it they didnt let their QB run it due to fear of injury. So we’re right back where we started from…square peg.

    • Super Keith says:

      I’m one of the few that think Heupel did a fine job calling games this year. However, that shouldn’t be mistaken with me thinking he’s doing a great job overall. Clearly there is something amiss in the QB ranks. OU should never find itself in a position that they have to rely on an untested, unready redshirt freshman QB. That’s exactly what happened, and that falls on Heupel’s shoulders.

      Who knows, if Archie Manning had decided to play football, we may not be in this situation, but that’s water under the bridge and there’s been time, since he decided to play baseball, to find a solid back-up signal caller.

      • Scott Moore says:

        I am one that agrees with you on Heupel. I think the success of Perine was relied upon to heavily in the end. Without him we were lost. I wonder if Knight would have played in Bedlam had Perine not been taking up the slack the two games before Bedlam.

    • Scott Moore says:

      What about Baylor? They have a definite system that players must play within. The difference is that they recruit QB’s that have strengths that play to that system. Possibly OU wants to go duel threat but we are experiencing the transition that both players and coaches must make. It’s a bit bumpy.

  • Andy says:

    Jordan you are right, it’s about the coaching when they get here, Thomas and Knight have the talent to do it. They are not put in the right situations to do it

  • Lesslie Stanford says:

    The greatest characteristic I have ever heard of Chip Kelly, is that he builds his offenses around who he has. He is not worried about having a guy that can do this and that with the ball at QB. Rather he takes what his QB’s strengths are and says this is what we are going to do. I think that is part of our problem,

  • OUknowitscomin says:

    Don’t Bogard that point………my friend.

    • OUknowitscomin says:

      & if no one understands and appreciates this post, I’m too old for this board

      • paganpink says:

        It’s Bogart! As in HUMPHREY! I remember the song playing in Easy Rider in 1969 and thought it was so cool, LOL. Along with The Pusher Man” and of course “Born to be Wild!” You’re in the right place!

        • OUknowitscomin says:

          I know, just having fun. Easy Rider….classic. Love that movie. Didn’t see it till years later, but appreciated it all the same.

  • OUknowitscomin says:

    Solid points all around actually. I’m not ready to write off TK or CT either, especially TK to this point. I’m actually floored that we are in this position actually…that’s been a long time Horns tradition that we’ve enjoyed laughing at…….now…..
    I haven’t largely agreed with your ‘Past excusing Present’ – fire the staff generalities. But this is pretty well spot on Jordan. Credit where credit is due.

  • Jhwig says:

    Jordan, I like this site and follow you guys on twitter for news and updates. The substance of this post makes sense and I agree with it for the most part.

    But, I have general criticism for this post and a lot of your posts/tweets, which I guarantee will not be favorable on this board due to your large, loyal following. You can make the same exact points without the passive aggressive attacks or jabs (call them whatever you want) at other “pay” sites, radio hosts and media guys. We all know who you are talking about, and we all know what they said. It’s kinda lame and does nothing for your writing. I also note that you are really the only writer on this site to do it (at least regularly). Just an observation.

    • Jordan Esco says:

      I think that’s definitely a fair observation. fwiw, I don’t feel this was passive aggressive towards that radio show I referred to. I had a back-and-forth w/ one of the hosts/former OU players and all I’ve done here is repeat what they stated and voice my disagreement w/ it/point out what I felt was their own contradiction.

      But, in general, I think you make a fair and valid point. At times my snark gets the better of me, I’ll freely admit that.

      • Easton says:

        The funny thing I realize is that I don’t loyally follow Jordan Esco, I follow where the best information is. But, that’s okay, I’ll be grouped in with loyal following of Jordan Esco. I appreciate your professionalism. I appreciate the fact the you represent a large fan base that has something to say, and doesn’t get paid to say it or not say it.

      • Sooner Ray says:

        If you don’t straighten up I will be forced to reduce my financial contribution to this site. 🙂

  • OUhound says:

    Ok, I’ll step up to the plate and say that you’re right if you are blaming JH but wrong if you are saying that the QB’s are bad. I don’t have any problem with both Knight and Thomas with regard to raw talent. The problem lies in the development of that raw talent. Frankly, I think JH has to go. The guy’s play calling, with the exceptions of a couple of games was questionable at best, and at times just awful. His ability to develop QB’s has got to be questioned. So my agreement or disagreement with you really is determined by whether you think they were poor recruits, or just poorly coached.

  • rphokc says:

    ……what problem?

    …….http://i.imgur.com/CdfBUlJ.jpg

  • Exiled In Ohio says:

    The last few games we pounded the ball; just what everyone here asked for. But that doesn’t allow CT to get into any kind of rhythm. I would recommend we not draw too many conclusions from the few games we saw him in.

  • David Luc says:

    “Responsibility is a unique concept… You may share it with
    others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it
    is still with you… If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion,
    or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else.
    Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when
    something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really
    responsible.”

    ―
    Hyman G. Rickover

  • Won says:

    Thank you again TFB and Jordan for providing a great opportunity to discuss and debate Sooner Football
    BOOMER!

  • mgcsooner says:

    Much as I hate to admit it, we need look no farther than little brother in Stillwater to see how Mike Gundy has been able to 1) identify, 2) recruit and 3) develop young QBs.

  • mgcsooner says:

    Much as I hate to admit it, we need look no farther than little brother in Stillwater to see how Mike Gundy et all has been able to 1) identify, 2) recruit and 3) develop young WRs. with a constant flow of very good coaches coming in and leaving.

  • Easton says:

    Oregon State found a new coach: Gary Anderson.

  • Nate Heupel says:

    I pointed this out a while back in a twitter convo with Jordan, and it’s been mentioned here as well. Jay Norvell is simply not getting it done with the WRs, either. Take a look at the guys he’s recruited (came in 2008), and the best WRs are transfers from another university or guys brought in by Norvell’s predecessor. Out of curiosity, anyone remember who was the WR coach at OU through 2007? Some guy named Kevin Sumlin. I hear he’s done well for himself since then.

    Look at the WRs recruited into the program starting in 2008.
    2008: Josh Jarboe, Dejuan Miller, and Jameel Owens.
    2009: Cam Kenney, Jaz Reynolds
    2010: Kenny Stills, Justin McCay, Sheldon McClain
    2011: Trey Metoyer, Kameel Jackson
    2012: Courtney Gardner, Trey Metoyer (again), Durron Neal, Sterling Shepard, LaColtan Bester, Derrick Woods
    2013: Dannon Cavil, K.J. Young, Austin Bennett, Jordan Smallwood
    Transfers: DGB, Jalen Saunders, Justin Brown

    Now, look at that list. I count two guys who are “can’t miss” there. I count 6 (SIX!!!) who didn’t finish their careers here, and one guy never even showed up. Kenny Stills and Sterling Shepard…that’s it for productivity. I’m not giving Norvell credit for Shep, because he was born with an OU LOI in his hand. Everyone else was serviceable at best.

    The funny thing is that, as I got to thinking about it, I’m not sure it’s Norvell’s fault. I kept seeing his name on high-value recruits at positions he should have no responsibility for over that stretch of time listed above. I’m beginning to think Bob kept so much dead weight on the staff for so long that Norvell was shouldering the recruiting burden of way too many coaches. The other possibility is that Norvell is overlooking entirely too many character red flags. We’ve got entirely too many strikeouts at WR that are direct results of character/off-field issues.

    • Sooners W says:

      Add to 2010–Joe Powell
      That’s a scary list of non productivity.

    • Easton says:

      Man oh man.

    • KellyB says:

      Wow, very good point. Hard to argue that our WR’s haven’t done well at all, especially considering many were highly sought after recruits.

      Based on this track record, I just don’t see how you can keep Norvell.

      Do we think the experiment of co-offensive coordinators was part of their demise?

    • Zack says:

      Norvell is probably gonna be the one that falls on the sword after NSD. I think general consensus is that he brings in talent (based on all kinds of scouting services) and it may be his developing or lack there of that leads stoops to make a change. It could be technique by the wide receivers that isn’t allowing them to be put in a position to help this offense.

      They are damn good run blockers though.

      • Sooner Ray says:

        I don’t think anyone could argue that we have some of the best down field blockers in the country.

    • D Hunter Sanchez says:

      Unfair! Unfreakin fair! McCay, Jarboe, Powell, Metroyer, Owens, Woods, Jackson either got kicked off the team for stupid actions or quit because they couldn’t get on the field. C’mon on man!

      Miller did some things, lacked speed. Kenny was a fourth WR, saved our ass at Okie St…

      The guys on the roster don’t look great yet, But that is the only argument you have. Leave Jay alone for now.

    • Rashad See says:

      As I have thought all along that Jay Norvell was receiving unnecessary venom for the lack of production from the offense, I was mistaken. We have been led to believe that Norvell was an ace recruiter but clearly either he misses a lot or he isn’t an ace at developing talent. Honestly, I feel like OU needs to develop an offensive system that firmly based in the run game. We need to find offensive staples that we can depend on and get extremely sharp at executing those staples. Truly, I believe OU has attempted to modify their offensive and defensive strategies with coaches that are more versed in other types of offensive and defensive strategies. This is caused a disconnect in the teaching methods and they need to go out and locate guys have had success with teaching the 3-4 defense and run based spread offense. So that being said adios Jay Norvell, Tim Kish, Josh Heupel and Bobby Jack Wright, it’s been good but it’s time to move on.

  • brainpimp says:

    YOU ARE NOT WRONG.

  • Soonerlaw6 says:

    A couple of thoughts here. One, I think JH should try calling plays from the sideline instead of the booth. I really think the absence of those sideline, in game, face to face conversations with the QBs has hurt us. Second, JH tends to gravitate toward recruits who are quality people AND good players. Just look at the recent QBs — with the exception of Kendal, they have a lot in common from a personality/beliefs standpoint. There is a lot of dirty recruiting that goes on at other programs that doesn’t go on at OU. This is true of positions other than just QBs. We have missed out on some freaks who are getting better offers elsewhere (cough cough, Baylor). I know a lot of people don’t want to acknowledge this, but it’s true. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be able to find good players who are both. But I promise you that we have also missed some exceptional athletes because of this too.

  • Big Higg says:

    Heupel is the MISS.

  • bmrsnr says:

    Any word on how Mayfield/Hansen look?

  • mgcsooner says:

    It’s more than a QB problem, although you definitely hit on something here. How many times have our receivers not been able to get open or dropped balls they should have had, only to kill drives.

  • JB says:

    I’m writing Knight & Thomas off for you, Jordan. Neither of these guys are “transcendent talents” at QB. Serviceable? Maybe.

    Those radio hosts who say all OU needs is a “transcendent talent” at OU…who gets the blame for not being able to recruit that difference maker, or 3 of them in the case of the Ohio State QBs??? Isn’t that usually the OC and QB coach, who happen to be 1 in the same at OU? Heupel put all his eggs in the Torrence Gibson basket, now we’re scrambling to find a QB, and it looks like we’ll lose to SMU on that one (SMU…really?).

    Baker Mayfield had better be all-world come Spring or this team is in even worse shape than they are now. I actually give Mayfield a chance at being a difference maker since he WAS NOT recruited by JH.

    • Boom says:

      Define QB talents. Montana wouldn’t have made it in a lot of systems but he was great in WC. Farve was nobody till they let him do his thing. Payton runs the show, think JH would let a QB have any slack? Good coaching will find the best way to use a QB and his strengths. I guess Boykin (horrible QB to WR back to QB Star) didn’t have transcendent talents but put a good OC in there and they used his strengths.
      Bottom line, JH has no system/identity for his offense. Thus, no good QB play. My point, it may not be the QB.

    • Sooner_Ace says:

      ” WAS NOT recruited by JH”….agree with you….but damn that is telling statement

  • Hotrod33 says:

    That is a fair assessment on all the qbs you have listed. When Landry was starting all four years we never saw a steady improvement with him. It seemed like he reached his potential his jr year.

    Right now the thing I see is we need a “serviceable quarterback that has a decent arm and let’s go with a rushing attack with the offensive line we will have with Bedenbaugh commanding it. Heck, demote Josh to QB coach and let Bedenbaugh be the OC.

    • Jason Argo says:

      I would say sophomore year.

      • Hotrod33 says:

        Heck, it all ran together.

      • Zack says:

        As much as we all criticize Landry he did not improve much from his sophomore year to his senior. But he did have great games as a senior. It’s probably a case where we saw too many games of his. Landry in this offense would have been enough to win those close games. And at least make the Baylor game a little more interesting.

        • Sooner Ray says:

          I agree. Landry had some real bone head plays and cowered under pressure at times but he was an accurate passer when the blocking held up and could have had a wonderful season this year with what we had on the field.

        • Rashad See says:

          Small fact about Landry’s senior season but the summer leading up to it he spent some time with QB guru George Godsey…..and he showed some improvement but I guess that happens when you get actual devoted coaching.

  • Super Keith says:

    I’m not ready to declare Knight or Thomas a miss, and Knight has done far more good than bad. However, I think there’s a definite issue with the level of “ready” talent we have.

    • Rashad See says:

      I am ready to call Knight a miss as it stands. He has not been up to the quality of OU QBs in the stoops era. Unless we can began to craft a game plan that limits him, he is a 8-9 win QB. HE is just a place holder right now. He completes too few passes to our guys and too many to the other team. The number bear that out and he is more injury prone than any other QB in the stoops era. We have to stop thinking about Alabama and his athletism because he is to fragile to be depended on for 14 games.

  • Chris White says:

    Can you imagine a 4-3 defense where we have Charles Walker, Jordan Phillips, Charles Tapper and Matt Dimon!? I mean Jordan P. and Walker in the middle? No more double teams. I’m just thinking of using our strengths and right now, D-line depth is our strength

    • Super Keith says:

      That would be interesting, however, we wouldn’t have Striker. He (Striker) said he was ready to leave the program when Mike arrived, but the change to a 3-4 is the reason he stayed.

      The defensive line wasn’t a problem this year. They did a good job, especially against the run. The issue was the secondary and the scheme.

  • Rene Goupillaud says:

    Let’s get to specifics. At OU, a Qb must learn how to look to the sideline for the play call, lineup then, step aside to the left to look again to the sideline for the revised play call, the trot down the OL shouting the new play, then assume his position in the pistol and hopefully get the snap before time expires.

    Executing this process is clearly more difficult and important than executing the actual play.

    Of course, I’m overstating it, but all this nonsense detracts from reading the defense and executing the play effectively. I think they spend a lot of practice time on the pre-snap routine. I believe the Qb spends so much attention on doing this, they can’t relax and just play ball.

  • akryan says:

    I think what this list really shows is that Heupel can’t be OC and QB coach at the same time. He was an amazing QB coach. From the time he joined the staff as a grad asst, he had his hands all over the QB position. He was key in developing Jason White and Sam Bradford (a 3 star recruit BTW) into Heisman QB. He was even able to make Paul Thompson work in a pinch. LJ improved a lot through his freshman and sophomore year. That first year he had a sieve of an OL too. As soon as JH moved to OC, that development stopped, and there hasn’t been any significant QB development of anyone since then.

  • Cory Reedy says:

    **crickets**

  • Spray says:

    Just to throw this out there: Trevor Knight, according to ESPN QBR, is 7th in the country… Not sure if that is good for Trevor, or bad for ESPN’s QBR formula.

  • ou1168 says:

    Jordan This is the first time I have posted over here , but I have been reading your stuff all along. Not sure if you are on the other site ,but you and I couldn’t think more alike. I also have been blasted by sunshine pumpers for years . It got so bad that I stopped doing my ” good .bad and ugly” post game posts that I had done for years . You are spot on with the issues you point out . And as one realistic Ou fan to another I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate your posts .

  • Scott says:

    You can’t sign a dual threat QB and just make him a pocket passer. Not fair to him IMO.

    As far as WR, lot’s of unproductive people but Shep, Broyles, Stills were extremely productive while not as talented coming out of HS as the others. Would love to see next years development of Quick, Mead, Todd, Andrews. Then I think we can judge.

  • thebigdroot says:

    Again I say this: Heupel the QB coach did a much better job than Heupel the OC/QB coach. No QB has progressed (at least not at the rate as before, which includes Bradford) since Heup moved upstairs.

  • bjwalker82 says:

    Basically Bradford was already good and the Air-raid offense fit him perfectly. Once Kevin Wilson left, we began to suck offensively. Landry could throw the ball, not accurately, not with patience, not deep in the progression, but he could throw it. I think the Air-raid would have suited him well. Quick throws, no thinking, like Bryce Petty.

    Point is, neither Heupel nor his QBs have improved. Point blank.

  • disqus_uj44WuVjt2 says:

    You are exactly right, and furthermore enough reasons why FUJH must go NOW!!!!

  • madman says:

    I think a huge problem with the defense has been the transition of schemes when they switched to the 3-4 imo

  • Kelsta says:

    I enjoy the fact that you don’t write articles with crimson shaded glasses. I don’t think I’ve ever said anything negative about you but come on man! You finish your article with a self indulgent bit about ‘I’m just presenting the facts here’?!?! Very little about this piece has anything to do with fact. Your criteria for labeling a guy as hit or miss just doesn’t work in the context of the article. It felt like you wrote 3 paragraphs of reasonable thoughts and then the train just came off the tracks.

  • SoonerMT says:

    Heupel is an albatross around the neck of Coach Stoops ans the OU program. His inability to develop QBs is evident. With the exception of one, all have flat lined in their development. Trevor knight is only the latest. It is interesting that in other programs across the country, third string quarterbacks can be placed on the field and produce (i.e. Ohio State) or raw talent can start the season and evolve into a confident, winning QB! (i.e. Alabama, among other programs). Combine his lack of coaching with his dismal offensive play calling, it is a recipe of disaster. Coach Stoops is loyal to a fault, even to the point of echoing Heupel party line lines that the players just do not execute my genius play calling. That loyalty by Coach Stoops is an admirable quality, but it is strangling the program, killing recruiting, and is just plain bad business. As a loyal fan and contributing alum, I would like to see surgical changes made, starting with the cancer that is Heupel.

  • disqus_uj44WuVjt2 says:

    It’s not just a quarterback problem, but a philosophical of what kind of offense do you want? Hoople wants a passing qb, that is what he knows. The qb’s recruited to date and are on campus will NEVER match up to Hoople’s knowledge and skills. He cant teach what he does not know!!! Bob Stoops has to be right in the middle of recruiting qb’s because Josh would have never recruited these types that we have. Peer pressure on Josh is another reason we have these half runners and quarter passers. You cant get blood out of a turnip and you certainly are not going to turn these guys into passers!!!