Some (Premature) Thoughts On OU Coaching Search

Image of Sonny Cumbie via thefroghorn.com

As one might expect with a Bob Stoops conducted coaching search, there has been very little in the way of tangible information. There was the report Wednesday of Sonny Cumbie being in Norman and apparently some sort of meeting with some portion of the OU coaching staff. Obviously, TFB has shared with you some of what we’ve been hearing. But aside from that, at least as far as I’m aware, there has been very little else other than names/lists just being thrown out there because those included ‘seem to make the most sense.’

And I say that because in a world in constant need of the next #HotSportsTake, allow me to offer mine. But I do so, and I couldn’t possibly emphasize this enough, knowing full well we’re just a mere few days into this thing and, as I’ve already stated, there is very little in the of anything resembling facts with regard to this coaching search and/or those involved.

* As I said on Twitter yesterday, you could easily talk me into Cumbie as the new OU QBs coach. And I presume it would almost have to come with a ‘co-…’ title of some sort given his current similar standing as a member of the TCU staff. But as the OC and primary play caller? Um, no.

This is a guy, as bright and talented and intelligent as he may be, who has virtually no experience calling plays and you’re going to (potentially) bring him in to install a new offense at the University of Oklahoma? I mean didn’t they just fire a guy that had a similar lack of experience prior to being named OC and play caller, who everyone was convinced was bright and talented and intelligent, and who struggled in his four years to establish an identity for this OU offense?

And not to mention this would be a guy from the ‘Mike Leach coaching tree’ which, again, would make for yet another very similar comparison to the guy you’ve just fired. And, yes, I know the system they’re running currently at TCU isn’t exactly a carbon-copy of the pass-happy style of offense people associate Leach, and his proteges, with running. But you’d still theoretically be replacing a guy with a resume strikingly similar to the one you just fired.

If — and, again, I cannot possibly emphasize the word IF in this statement enough — this is the guy you’re considering as the new offensive coordinator and play caller, it’s a hire that just wouldn’t make any sense to me given the current circumstances surrounding the position and the considerable pressure that will be coming along with it.

Now if you want to give Cumbie the QB job with a ‘co-…’ title and pair him with an experienced offensive coordinator/play caller, then I think you’re looking at a potential home run type of hire (pending who said experienced OC/play caller would be, of course). That said, I’m not entirely sure how realistic this type of scenario would be given this is already Cumbie’s current situation in Fort Worth. So what, other than money, would be the motivation for him to make that type of a “lateral” move?

* Here’s my other big issue with what we think we know and the names being thrown out there. I don’t think I’m going out on much of a limb in stating the importance of these impending hires and any more than may come after (like, say, National Signing Day). This is obviously Stoops’ chance to right the ship if you will. And, in my opinion, he probably won’t get another one.

Hear me out. The guy has been here 16 years and counting. This is clearly the most significant staff turnover he’s ever experienced and he’s had to do so largely because he, and the program, are coming off the worst season of his considerable tenure. If you make these hires, however many there may wind up being, and in two, three, maybe four years down the road things haven’t worked out, the program hasn’t been restored to at or pretty damn near a national championship level, I’m just not convinced Stoops is given another chance to “shake things up.”

I mean at that point, at pretty much 20 years on the job, aren’t you forced to consider it’s just time to go in another direction? Maybe, maybe not. None of us can predict the future, but if the program were to continue on what appears to be its current trajectory I’m not sure how things wouldn’t be forced to change.

So if you’re of the opinion, as I am, that Stoops is at least, on some level, feeling the pressure be it from fans, boosters, his bosses, or all of the above, you’re going to put the final chapter/s of your “legacy” on the line with some of these guys being mentioned? You’re going to take a chance on a guy with no play calling experience after that already didn’t work out? Or a guy from a small school in Conference USA?

This is the University of freaking Oklahoma. We’ve been told since the day many of us have been born it’s one of the most prestigious football programs in the entire country. We’re watching lesser schools make high profile hire after high profile hire and OU is “reportedly” considering guys from schools like Toledo and East Carolina? It’s not like anybody with a brain is expecting Bob to go get Chip Kelly to run the offense and Nick Saban the defense. But at the same time, you’re telling me the name I’m supposed to get excited about is a guy from Western Kentucky? I can’t be the only one questioning this, right?

And, look, I get it. You go where you believe the talent to be. If it’s Texas A&M, Oregon, TCU, Western Kentucky, or wherever. Just because a guy is at a ‘big name school’ doesn’t necessarily mean he’s any more or less qualified than a guy at East Popcorn State.

Supposedly Bob wants to go young with this hire to help revitalize the program and bring in someone who, in theory with their relative youth, could better relate to recruits. Those are all things I’m in favor of happening. And I understand that with youth, odds are you’re most likely going to be dealing with some level of inexperience as a result. But it just makes very little sense to me, given what this program appears to need right now, that this is a hire you ‘take a chance’ on. Granted, I’m sure if they were to go with one or more of the inexperienced/small school guys currently being mentioned those doing the hiring wouldn’t feel like they’re taking a chance on the guy/s. They’d obviously be confident they found their guy/s. But it sure seems like a pretty big opportunity to be giving someone at a school like OU who it sure seems an awful lot like you’d be ‘taking a chance’ on.

For whatever it’s worth, I do think Bob has a pretty good idea of what he’s looking for in these hires even though those of us on the outside have no idea at this point what/who that is. And I also think there just talking to a couple different guys right now kind of feeling things out (which means they’ll probably hire someone shortly after I post this only furthering the idea I never have any idea what I’m talking about).

But this stuff is all happening in real time and even though most of what somebody like myself would be offering in something like this is reactionary and mostly guesswork, it’s fun (and by fun I mean bizarre as it’s really something most of us as OU fans haven’t had a chance to experience all that much) to talk about so I figured what’s the real harm in throwing it out there for the group to discuss. And I say that knowing for some this will just read like some idiot, irrational fan ranting and raving about how they think they know more than Bob and what’s best for the program…

…so commence to ripping my argument to shreds and calling me a know-nothing moron!

174 Comments

  • SCKSChief says:

    You no-nothing moron!!! LOL

  • Zack says:

    I think frost would be a home run. And I think Bob and joe c know that and will go after him big time.

    • Mr. Jones says:

      I sure hope they do. Swing and a miss is a lot better than striking out looking.

      • Zack says:

        And I think they could land him. I don’t trust Blevins but he believes/has a source that says frost is aware ou wants him. They just have to see if they can out bid oregon and sell frost on showing he can do the oregon offense outside of oregon. If he can be successful at ou then it won’t be mid majors wanting him or even Indiana. It will be Nebraska that wants him.

  • Billy M says:

    Good write up. Give me Frost or bust.

  • Jeremy Phillips says:

    I don’t really care who it is, where they’re from, what level they’ve coached at.. If they have a solid philosophy & can teach it, coach it, recruit to it & win with it… I’ll be a happy camper…

  • Exiled In Ohio says:

    I don’t see BS talking to Cumbie if he is going for Frost. If Frost was a possibility, I think Frost would be allowed to bring someone with him rather than BS make a QB hire now independent of the direction of the new OC.

    • roygbell says:

      Who says they haven’t already worked that issue out and Frost is on board with a Cumbie hire. Frost coached the Oregon WRs for four years prior to taking on the QB coaching job there.

    • brainpimp says:

      You talk to everyone you are interested in quietly. Nothing is finalized so you don’t know who you’re gonna get until it’s signed.

  • Eric Hoffpauir says:

    FWIW, Oregon got Chip Kelly from New Hampshire.

  • SCKSChief says:

    I whole-heartedly agree with the notion that we must get someone with playcalling experience. The big problem(s) that arise with this are money and the willingness to make a “lateral move”. OC to OC is, to most, seen as a lateral move career-wise…especially when it’s from a Power 5 to another Power 5. This comes with the caveats of big pay increase or school/coach allegiance which can sway a guy past the notion of a lateral move.

    I don’t know what the right answer is. Unfortunately, in this day and age, I think the money speaks louder than any talk of tradition or even chance to win it all. Any of the guys we’ve seen listed, be they from A&M, TCU, Oregon, Auburn or Missouri could realistically say, “but I have great talent here and we could win it all.” The only names we’ve seen that CANNOT use that argument ARE those from the ECUs and the WKUs of the world. Plus, those guys (with playcalling experience, btw…be it limited or no) would obviously be guys whom OU could give a dramatic salary boost with relative ease; this cannot be said about the guys from the Power 5 schools.

    All said and done, I, too, prefer a guy who has earned his stripes and produced. However, I do not want to go the UT HC search route and shoot and miss four or five times and eventually end up “settling” either. Which is why I would have a list that includes one or two “pipe dream” guys and two or three “realistic” guys that have experience. Pipe dreams would be a guy like Lashlee or Frost. Realistic guys would be Riley, Meachum or…hell, I don’t know. I would prefer no more guys from “within” the Stoops era, so McGee is an interesting third name to the “realistic” column.

    • Eric Hoffpauir says:

      I came back to elaborate on my comment, and I see that SCKSChief has pretty much said what I wanted to say.

    • Mr. Jones says:

      I disagree that Frost would be a pipedream (not saying it’s going to happen, though). I think OU would potentially be a fast track to a head coaching job. If he came here and excelled, he would get almost all the credit which is not the case at Oregon.

      • SCKSChief says:

        Good point there. That angle hadn’t occurred to me. I still think he could be in that category because Oregon, should they choose, could fairly easily match whatever money OU offered.

  • SoonerfanTU says:

    I don’t mean to attack you Jordan, but I find it funny that you attack/rip Bob Stoops when he is backed into a corner by fans/media and gets defensive, but you are doing the same thing with that very last sentence, unprovoked. At least WAIT for somebody to unfairly rip you before getting defensive.

    You are putting an opinion out there. Some will agree, some won’t. You seem to think everybody should agree, or they are ripping you. I don’t get that. If this is carry-over from the stuff that happened in the season where fans thought you were being too negative, I think it’s time to move past that, don’t you?

  • Coach JK says:

    I think you just wrote what most of us are thinking, but remember, all great coaches had to start somewhere and its not all that easy to start out at a big name Univ.

  • Jared Tyra says:

    You make me laugh sometimes with how you seemingly rip yourself a new one while discussing the material of your article. Have confidence in your work, man; you’re pretty good at this I’d say. That being said, I’m all for the fresh guy with innovative possibilities as well as the Scott frost Goliath/OC hire. I just don’t want anyone with prior relation to the program (sorry Seth, sorry mark, sorry etc etc).

  • soonerjunky says:

    Jordan, if not one of these young guys from western Kentucky, ECU, or TCU, then who? Tell me what established OC that is “young” would leave their current position and come to OU? Frost is only making $400, OU could double that, right.

    • Justin Keller says:

      huep was making $600,000 so i dont know why you couldnt throw an absurd number like $750,000 or 800,000 at him… Norvell was making like $450,000 so if you match up a guy like Lincoln Riley or or someone that needs more grooming maybe the WR coach would get a little less than Norvell’s $450,000 and that could compensate the raise to the QB coach/OC pay raise.

  • Mr. Jones says:

    Completely agree with the desire for someone who has play-calling experience and a clear system. This can’t be the hire where you just give somebody a shot based on potential.

  • roygbell says:

    I think it is Frost and the reason they are taking with Cumbie is he is a current QB coach. Bob fired Heupel and Norvell. Josh was the QB coach and Jay the WR coach. So, he has to replace a QB coach and a WR coach. Frost is a WR coach and Cumbie is a QB coach.

    If Bob had an other OC ready to go, other than Frost, he could have already done the deal and announced it. He can’t talk about Frost because Frost has a very important game to focus on come Monday.

    Any guesses is pure speculation, but the above fits OU’s needs for a WR coach and QB coach as well as the timing for an announcement.

    • soonerinks says:

      Frost/Cumbie combo makes a whole lot of sense. Frost brings a system and the two of them completely fill our coaching needs. Now whether OU can make this happen remains to be seen and it all may just be wishful thinking on our part.

    • Big C says:

      This would be an ideal hire! Hope your right..

    • D Hunter Sanchez says:

      Exactly. This would be a great combo. Cumbie turned a QB (Boykin) who was a turnover machine into a special player. Frost will bring a system that can beat you in multiple ways.

  • evenyoudorn says:

    Jordan, maybe you were stung by some critical comments in the past, but you’ve got to stop injecting your writing with so much hedging and (this will sound harsher than I mean it to) self-pity. It has become a habit and it’s uncomfortable. Say what you mean and if people don’t like it, that’s their problem… but I think a big part of your job description is standing confidently by your arguments (otherwise, why post them?).

  • SoonerfanTU says:

    What lesser schools are making more high profile hires, that aren’t “retreads”? I’m not seeing a lot of that. Also seems to me that a lot of the recent turn arounds at schools (TCU comes to mind, maybe aTm, and others) have been successful with young, inexperienced staff taking over key offensive staff positions. Would I prefer somebody with a couple of years experience calling plays? Sure, but there are “big schools” every year giving new coordinators opportunities, and watching them succeed. At some point, most of you would probably be content with Monty getting a shot to call defensive plays at OU, and he’ll be inexperienced as a defensive play caller when/if he gets that chance.

    My question is, off the list of guys we’ve heard about, guys like Riley, Spavital, Cumbie, Frost, the WK guy, ect…..is there a chance we can land two off that list to fill our QB/WR/OC rolls? That would be a pretty nice overhaul of the offensive staff.

  • Justin Keller says:

    I am with you on some of the smaller school guys outside of Frost and Meachum. I wouldn’t mind seeing one of those smaller school guys paired up with someone like Frost or Meachum though.

  • F1at1ined says:

    That pic of Cumbie above – he looks a little like Aaron Eckhart. Not that that adds anything useful to this discussion haha.

    • Billy Jackson says:

      Dude, your post is way more insightful than the jabbing and name calling coming from that one guy who was trolling everyone a couple of weeks back.

  • Stephen Dale says:

    I suspect the BOR forced Bob;s hand to make changes and the onus fell on Heupel–when, in fact, it probably should have fallen on Mike Stoops. As inconsistent as the offense was ( think T Knight) , the defense was worse in multiple games and MS admitted to having no clue how to stop the ‘bloodletting’.!!! Barry Tramel’s article in the D.O. indicated no changes were being made on the defensive side ( including Kish & BJW??) so Bob is sticking with his brother regardless of the results of the past season or two seasons if one wants to look….As to the new OC : so much depends on how good a teacher he is because there 4 guys on campus and we’ve only seen two of them fail miserably. Are either Mayfield or Hansen as good or any better than Knight or Thomas ??…… Whomever is hired is going to be asked to transform 1 or 2 of these guys into productive players. SO the new OC better be able to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Good luck to him.

  • Bob Browning says:

    I think Frost would be a great hire, but do you really think he’d leave Oregon for a lateral move with where that program is now??

    • Billy Jackson says:

      Yes. For the right amount of money and the chance to coach at a football institution like Oklahoma, with a real shot at becoming its next head coach.

      I could be way off, but I think he’d at least think very seriously about it.

      I want Frost, not just for what he’s doing at Oregon, but for his experience under Bill Walsh, Tom Osborn, Bill Parcels and Belichick, and also being successful as a defensive coordinator (Northern Iowa), where his unit ranked 3rd. His ability to pull the trigger successfully without hesitation is key, too. No more burned timeouts which keeps the defense on its heels and guessing.

      • hOUligan says:

        Good points. Add, as others have said, a chance to install and run rather than simply maintain what was already in place. A chance to make a huge mark. Biggest problem is OU doesn’t have much in the QB cupboard and certainly no Mariota on campus.

        • Billy Jackson says:

          True about the quarterbacks, but one thing about them is they’re all very athletic and all can run (except Trevor gets hurt a lot). I little (okay, a lot) of coaching on footwork and pocket presence, along with working on accuracy could transform the qb crew into a pretty decent bunch.

          I also think we could expect to see an upgrade in talent being recruited, although I still believe the cupboard isn’t bare regarding our quarterbacks.

        • MoJoOkie says:

          I’m not sold on our QB’s, but I think if someone does a little work with the WR’s it may help a QB look a little sharper. If TK had 2 or 3 possibilities instead of a limping one, he (or one of the others) might look a little better. In addition to that, a true QB coach that focused primarily on that might bring them along a little as well.

    • MoJoOkie says:

      Devil’s advocate says that Bob may only stick around another 3-4 years and then the HC job is open and possibly discussed in the hiring interview. MS’s stock has fallen and I would say that he is no longer the heir apparent. Possible HC at Oklahoma and more $ would incentivize some people. (Billy Jackson beat me to it)

      I still would entertain Riley and Cumbie combo. I like it better than the Meachum/Cumbie because it might create a little more diversity in backgrounds.

  • Rashad See says:

    Why has no one really spoke about Rhett Lashlee? I feel like the offense at Auburn is one that emphasizes the run and stretches the field while also hearkening back to many of the option run concepts that we helped to make famous at OU. He would also help to recruit in the SE part of the country. I believe that he had a hand in developing Cam Newton and Nick Marshall both dual threat QBs. In Bob’s interview, he stated that the hire would be someone who is experienced with personnel similar to what we currently have. Also if you look at Auburn they also utilize big WRs which we have moved towards during recruiting as well as TEs and FBs. You don’t see that as much at Oregon and TCU.

    • Jordan Esco says:

      He was actually the first name I suggested for OC a month ago when I put together my list of what a new staff could look like.

      • Rashad See says:

        Just seems to be omitted from most of the list that I have seen and believe that the offense that they are running is the most similar/easy transition from what we have. I believe had JH/Norvell every found a staple of plays to attack consistently with (which didn’t default to fake zone read on short yardage) we would have won 3 more games this year and they would still be employed by the University of Oklahoma. I believe Lashlee would have the most reason to separate himself from Auburn too, given that Malzahn gets all the credit for what happens on the offensive side there.

        • Jeremy Phillips says:

          His is omission from most lists is likely due to his relationship with Malzahn & the fact that he’s not the play caller, Gus is.. Bob was clear that he wants an experienced play caller. Having said that, i realize the Cumbie talk then makes no sense, but he’s clearly been involved so his name will stay on short lists until further notice…

      • Fort Smith Okie says:

        Lashlee could decide it’s best to get out from under Gus to prove himself as a potential HC candidate, but I doubt it. I can tell you from living in Arkansas since Gus was a HS coach here, he commands a creepy almost cult-like following from the folks who came up with or around him.

        • Rashad See says:

          I believe you have to give it a shot…..whatever happens we need an expert not a novice trying to learn on the job. Play-calling is an art and you know when you have a great play caller as he will make the best calls when the game is on the line. He will be unpredictable but understandable with his play calls.

          • Fort Smith Okie says:

            I’m not saying don’t give it a shot, I’m just saying folks shouldn’t get too excited over someone who isn’t likely to leave his mentor for a lateral move.

    • Jordan says:

      I agree. I want Lashlee to be the OC and bring one of these other guys to coach the WR. I think the transition to that offense would be the easiest for the current personnel we have on campus.

    • Stephen Dale says:

      Rashad…………….believe you are the first to mention Lashlee… I like your thinking and he would, indeed, help in recruiting SEC country…………

      • Rashad See says:

        I also like the fact that he understands the QB run game. In most cases, it’s a feel for the game but I felt like JH was ill prepared to teach a QB how to read a defense when attacking it with the QB run game. I like the use of tempo with Auburn and Oregon for that matter.

    • Malicong says:

      Not saying it can’t be done, but it would be really really really difficult to get Lashlee away from Malzahn. He has been with him since he was a teenager in Springdale. Making a lateral move, even for more money, would be a tough sell.

      • Rashad See says:

        That might be the reason to leave as you don’t want to seem like you are riding his coat tail or being a lackey. He can chart his own course here but has the knowledge of an innovative offense that he has a great deal of experience with/expertise.

        • Malicong says:

          That is a good point. I think an Auburn type offense would be ideal as it still features the RB heavily and he certainly has experience with it. The only danger I see is if Malzahn is still the key behind it and Lashlee has already been riding his coat tail. I don’t think that is the case but it is something to keep in mind.

    • hOUligan says:

      Mentioned Lashlee last season in a dump JH/OC thread on OS. He’s good but not sure his system is quite what Bob is looking for in terms of passing offense. More run oriented but actually fairly balanced. I’d abide it but think Bob wants to stay more pass 1st to set up the run oriented offense.

      • Fort Smith Okie says:

        The thing that makes a Malzahn offense (I call it that because Lashlee is a disciple of it) is the ability to adapt to the strength of the best QB available. If Nick Marshall was a stronger passer, you’d seen bigger numbers in the passing game. If Jeremy Johnson — a better natural passer than Marshall — wins the QB battle for the ’15 season, expect to see much more bigger passing numbers from Auburn.

        • hOUligan says:

          You have to be willing to let your QB run in that system. Bob reiterated that he will always recruit a QB who 1st is a good passing QB and if he can run, it’s a bonus. IMHO still looking east to the small schools, ECU, or west to Frost. Maybe Cumbie in the mix?

          • Fort Smith Okie says:

            No doubt you have to be willing to let them run, but it’s not a QB run-first system. They just need to be athletic enough to do it. You can’t be Tom Brady in his system, but you don’t have to be Johnny Manziel either. I agree it will likely be a small school guy.

          • D Hunter Sanchez says:

            If this is true, doesn’t it also rule out Frost? But the current trend in high school is the read option. Hence, having a dual threat QB gives you a shot at the majority of QB’s playing in HS. This was behind the move to dual threat recruiting in 2011 (Knight).
            I think Bob is also looking at Tyson Helton of WK. He coached Joe Webb who was a dual threat at AUB. Helton was the recruiting coordinator at AUB and QB coach. OC at WK. He is a son of a coach and a brother of a coach like Bob. If he is just thinking about a QB coach like Cumbie, this guy would fit the bill, l as would his brother at USC Clay. Helton had a prolific offense albeit, at WK. So he qualifies as an OC.

          • hOUligan says:

            Wouldn’t say ‘rules out’ either. Two things: getting the right QB. Mariota is a big strong guy at 6’4 215. He avg only 8 carries per game over his career but 28 pa @ 66%. He is a great passer with good run skills. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=206121
            Bob has to have the offense he is comfortable with and it seems that they were not comfortable letting TK run the true ZR or move him out of the pocket to throw, which he is very effective with as he showed in the SB, where he only has to ‘read’ a small portion of the field, a weakness, instead of the entire field. Maybe because TK has been ‘fragile’. To me, it all just says more aerial oriented offense but who knows. If it’s Frost, I will be very excited. I like the OR and Aub attacks, just not sure Bob is totally in.

    • L'Carpetron Dookmarriot says:

      Oregon uses TEs, perhaps not much though. Thus, I agree with the gist of the TE/FB issue. If I recall correctly, Andrews might have switched to WR/TE, not a blocking TE.

      Oregon using a TE: http://fishduck.com/2015/01/anatomy-of-a-drive-the-method-to-scott-frosts-play-calling/

  • Jordan Esco says:

    I guess my self-deprecating sense of humor isn’t nearly as endearing as I thought it was 🙁

    • SCKSChief says:

      I enjoy it. It’s only common-sense to halfway expect someone to have a vitriol-laced tirade prepared for whatever you post.

    • Billy Jackson says:

      No, I like it just fine. Of course my twisted sense of humor is often now allowed most places, so what do I know? 🙂

    • Doobie74OU says:

      It’s all good man I really enjoy your stuff and style of reporting! I am with you on the edge quite a bit and it is good to know if we jump off the cliff we will have company on the way down! LOL!

    • BR says:

      I agree with Doobie Jordan, I enjoy and almost always agree with what you are saying. And even if I rarely dont totally agree with your opinion I can still relate to what your getting at, because I think we all are feeling the same dadgum irritatating pain as you are after this past season….haha

    • L'Carpetron Dookmarriot says:

      Ain’t a thang.

      We message board posters are Cartman Brah, commenting on people who comment on people playing football.

    • Mizuno44 says:

      “I’m not really wise, but I can be cranky.”
      – Andy Griffith

    • snakepit says:

      It only shows that you are kind, very intelligent and very humble!! With your position on this board who could ask for anything more…You simply cannot please all the people all the time, but thank you for your efforts to try and do so……

  • Malicong says:

    After reading this, it would seem that Scott Frost would be the ideal candidate to meet all those expectations. The problem is not easily solved. There are not a whole lot of experienced but still young OC’s.

    • Stephen Dale says:

      another poster, Rashad, mentioned Rhett lashlee of Auburn. He would be experienced enough to meet requirements and add to recruiting SEC country… not a bad choice at all……

      • Malicong says:

        He has actually been talked about several times before. He would be a good candidate, but being the ideal candidate doesn’t mean he is going to take the job.

        • Stephen Dale says:

          true enough. .might be tough getting him from the SEC to a lesser conference unless the money was just too good for him to turn down.

          • Malicong says:

            I has nothing to do with conference. Lashlee has been with Malzahn since he was coaching high school. It would be tough to convince someone to leave the nest unless there was a promotion involved.

          • D Hunter Sanchez says:

            Lesser conference? That shipped has sailed. Bama who is the best team of that conference in it’s last two bowl games is giving up an average of 42 points! Yes, they still produce the most NFL players. And?

  • Stephen Dale says:

    Jordan………….always enjoy your essays so keep them coming ; and keep telling the truth as you see it……..it is refreshing !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • F1at1ined says:

    I forget who was the one who kept asking TFB about him, but Jason Candle has a pretty interesting and experienced resume as Asst HC/OC at Toledo. I read up on him after hearing his name volunteered and he seems to be doing great things with perceived lesser talent.

  • Herman Bubbert says:

    Great piece, Jordan. We live in an era where people demand to be affirmed, to be told that what they believe is true, rather than informed, and as such become irate when they’re not affirmed. No biggie. Your view is legitimate and spot on, as I see it.

  • Birddawg says:

    Someone with proven playcalling in the power 5 is going to cost some dough.
    If so..
    Pony up and outbid Oregon for Scott frost.
    Get him in here to establish the system.
    Just an idea..

    • Doobie74OU says:

      I am wondering if Frost would be as hard to convince as it seems he would be to make the move. While on the outside it would appear to be a lateral move but, Chip Kelly installed that offense and when he left his OC Mark Helfrich became the HC, so the case could be made that by coming to OU Frost could step out of that shadow and establish a name for himself and remove any possible claim that he is succesfull because he inherited the “Oregon/Kelly System” and has Helfrech there to guide him! Just a random thought!

      • Birddawg says:

        Good thought

      • Fear the Magic says:

        Im not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not but actually Jordan brings up a good point above. Stoops probably has another 5 -6 years tops before he calls it quits. Frost would be coming into a situation where if he succeeds could put him first in line for the HC job at OU. One of the most prestigeous not to mention high paying jobs around. He could easily parley this move from an $800,000 ( or whatever ) job to a God knows what they’ll be paying head coaches job at OU 5 years from now.
        As for it being a lateral move, yes Oregon is a top team now but traditionwise this isnt even close to being a lateral move. OU is 10 steps up.
        To me this is a golden opportunity for someone like Scott Frost.

        • L'Carpetron Dookmarriot says:

          Indeed. My completely silly, outlandish thoughts were that Bob wins another title and calls it quits while on top. Then, the keys to OU are handed to Scott.

          I’d like to reiterate to everyone reading my silly post. It’s a complete fantasy on my part because, you know, like, this is a message board and reality is not a requisite condition for my posts.

      • L'Carpetron Dookmarriot says:

        I am wish thinking the same thing.

  • Doobie74OU says:

    As far as I can tell there are three types of journalism.
    First there is Reporting! The most accurate because you are simple telling people what already happened. Very necessary but also not that difficult in concept to get done right and in a manner people like!
    Second there is what I call Revenge Journalism. These guys have some kind of vendetta against something or someone and spend there entire carreer trying to find that AHHH HAAA! moment so they can say I told you so. Worthless as far as I am concerned and even though they may bring up some valid points from time to time they loose all creditability because of their constant nonsense. (see Hoover’s latest work for examples)
    And finally a third one I call Weatherman Journalism. This is ENTIRELY based on specutation and guess work! When done correctly it is quite possible my favorite type!!! It can be fun trying to perdict the future and guess what will happen next. Ok sometimes (well most of the time) you are right about as often as the weatherman but man it makes for a good read. This is were the excitment is though, the dreaming, the fantasy if you will ( I mean how cool would it be if Stoops could hire Chip Kelly as OC and Saban as DC) It is not meant to be 100% accurate.
    These are the reasons I love The Football Brainiacs! They do the reporting and occasionally dabble in the Weatherman Forcast version but we never hear any of the REVENGE style here. Jordan your articles are always great, your passion for OU football is great, and I look forward to reading anything you put out as the rest of us make these Weatherman Post with our speculation! Thanks again for all you guys do! WOW that was way to long!

    • Jed says:

      There’s the ‘Interpretive’ part as well. “Here’s what happened and here’s what it means.” You can do that without being didactic, but it takes latent. Unfortunately, the current crop of ‘journalists’ are not very good at this. In my view because they went to journalism school instead of getting a good, general, liberal arts education. So, instead, we’re saddled with the yahoos of cable tv.

  • Mizuno44 says:

    First, take it easy on yourself and stand up straight 🙂

    You mentioned “identity”, and needing one. IMO, this is the most critical component to determine at this point, who do we want to be? Bob Stoops said he has a good idea of what he wants. That’s important, got to know what you want in order to find the right fit. One might assume he started with that same notion before he found both line coaches, and they seem to be working out okay. Bob Stoops is going to find what he’s looking for offensively, and I believe that nobody on the planet can be ruled out. Seriously, does it take any more than asking candidates, “How would you feel about helping us win our 8th National Championship”? The wheels are in motion, let’s not all get stir crazy in a time where we need to be patient.

  • Fort Smith Okie says:

    I think the difficulty in finding a young but experienced play caller from a power conference to take the position is the willingness of programs to take chances on young hires as HC. The guys who’ve shown the most are seen by others and likely themselves as HC candidates, not candidates for a lateral move.

  • BigJoeBrown says:

    You bring up some good points Jordan. I admit I often think that we, have to find some guy at a mid-major who may be an up and comer. But the reality is we are OU…and don’t really have to do that. There are coach’s who would consider coaching at OU a great job, decent pay, a well known program plus the opportunity to work with Bob Stoops.

    So really the idea that someone may just do a lateral move isn’t suprising. For example, LSU’s new DC was A&M’s DC, last year Alabama’s OC left to become Michigan’s OC. Some guy’s may just be wanting a new opportunity.

    • L'Carpetron Dookmarriot says:

      Good points here. Also, Venables to Clemson (hardly arguable that they are lesser in terms of prestige and tradition) for more money and same position. Of course, there may have been some other factors at play, but that is also possible for those you listed. Case in point, there are many LSU fans who don’t like Chavis’ defense.

  • Birddawg says:

    I’m a KC chiefs fan.
    We have one of the longest playoff drought in the NFL.

    When Lamar Hunt took over, he hired the best available GM in Scott Pioli.. four years. no playoff win. He axed him.

    Then he hired the best possible coach available in Andy Reid. 2 years no playoff win.

    Six years under Hunt and no playoff wins. BUT there is zero animosity for his work because as fans we see that he’s willing to spend the money and get the best available hires to get us there.
    I want to see Bob Stoops do the same. Do everything he can to prove to us that he is that guy.
    Hold accountability and axe the coaches that don’t win. Hire the best available coaches.

    • D Hunter Sanchez says:

      Seems like he’s attempting to do so. OU/Chiefs fan as well. Chiefs fan since 1969.

  • Indy_sooner says:

    Esco… the premise of your post is understandable but I disagree on the hiring low profile. If he can get Coach B out of WV and Jerry M to come in and do what they did, he deserves the benefit of doubt with OCs.
    I think a lot of folks are jumping the gun here. He brought in Mangino, Leach, Wilson and Sumlin and yes, Heupel.. that’s 4 for 5 and I will pick this any day. It may be just me, but I have faith in whatever hire he selects. Call it blind faith if you want.

  • Michael Darling says:

    Hoping for Scott Frost, realistically expecting Tyson Helton as OC. Agree that Cumbie would be fantastic for QB coach/Co-OC but just don’t see him leaving for a lateral albeit for more money.

  • Jared William Reininger says:

    Great write up Jordan. I still contend you make arguments for both sides of the fence which is refreshing.

    I am on board with everything you said. I just would contend that, as you eluded to, a “BIG NAME FROM A BIG SCHOOL,” is not a prerequisite. Seems like everyone is flipping out about the WKU guy or Toledo or wherever it may be and I find it a little comical. I mean if the guy can coach, the guy can coach. I am glad you pointed that out. MY number one picks would be meachem or Frost, but I don’t see those being likely hires.

  • Ash Jones says:

    I have a small brain and suck my thumb so take my opinion with a grain of salt. How about we wait and see who OU picks as new OC and then discuss the pros and cons of the hire after next season?

    I feel it’s impossible to know how the current athletes will respond and perform under the new system, we hope it will work. Knowing a name does nothing for me. Results on the field is where we will know if the new OC is effective or not.

    Worse case scenario it takes two or three seasons to find out. Best case OU kicks hindquarters and takes names from game one on to the national title.

    Ok….off my soapbox and back on the short bus.

  • soonerthunder says:

    I think Stoops has already got something worked out w/someone, which makes me think it’s Frost. I think he told Heupel/Norvel, and I think he’s told Wright/Kish and maybe MS to look before the bowl game from what I hear from inside the offices, the way they were being run was like they had their jobs on the line, like they could be fired–that’s what I heard. I think they had been told. I heard (at that time) Heupel/Norvel (altho what I heard was Heupel demoted to QB coach so that was wrong I guess), and Wright/Kish gone, too, but I heard no speculation on MS. I think it accounts for how badly OU played in bowl game, too. Coaches were looking for a job more than preparing for a bowl. In other words, I think he gave them a heads start to get other jobs.

    Personally, I think he has already agreed in principle with someone but can’t say anything b/c they are still coaching. That’s why I think it’s Frost. Then, when I look at his salary at Oregon, he’d be the sole guy at OU, makes me encouraged. Oregon’s HC Helfrich was the OC before HC. Stoops won’t get in his way at all. Helfrich will at Oregon. I like Meachem/Cumbie and Riley as well, better than any other names put out there, including Lashlee (I want an OC who is a prolific passing coach, n/a dull SEC offensive coach). But I’ll tell you, I thought I wanted other guys over Stoops 16 yrs ago, and glad we got Stoops, or thought the Thunder should get who the media was wanting the Thunder to draft and glad we got Adams, etc., so I think Stoops will get someone good seeing he has to the money to.

    • L'Carpetron Dookmarriot says:

      I may jump out of my skin if Frost is OU’s new OC. Whether it’s the vagueness of the situation or the fact that he would leave Oregon for OU, even for tons more money, it seems unlikely to me, however.

      I can wish and I will until we know who the offensive coordinators are.

      • soonerthunder says:

        me too. I’ll be very happy with Frost. I’d also be happy with Meachem/Cumbie, Riley.

  • ME says:

    Good write up. You can’t pay attention to the critics. I watched the Stuart Scott 15 minute youtube thing ending with his entire ESPY’s speech. There were commenters being asshats there…of all freakin’ places. Critics are everywhere. Ignore them.

  • SoonerFan11 says:

    Best written article i have read by you. You bring up valid points. Would Scott Frost fit the bill your looking for?

  • CWasha says:

    Jeff Tedford? Proven system and winner. Great w QBs…

  • Soonerlaw6 says:

    I agree that we are a top tier football program and should go after the very best, starting with our top choice and moving our way down the list. We can’t assume, though, that we are necessarily going to get the buy at the top of the list. Coaches care about more than just the name of the program. They are evaluating circumstances, things like, why did the previous OC get fired, how did his offense perform statistically, do I believe I can outperform him statistically, how is their defense, do I believe I can outscore the amount of points that the defense has allowed, where is the program headed, is the head coach in the hot seat, and if so how might that affect my career path.
    Also, the Scott Frosts of the world are likely to be a bit alarmed by the fact that this is a program whose defense was objectively worse than its offense, despite injuries plaguing key offensive players not only throughout the season but at critical moments within games (see end of Bedlam, where they are playing without their best two running backs, star receiver, starting QB, and a starting offensive lineman), yet the defensive staff remains fully in tact while both offensive co-coordinators are canned. Bob’s personnel decisions in this last week are sending messages to these highly sought after offensive coaches about the relative expectations he has of offensive performance vs defensive performance, and they aren’t necessarily comforting messages.
    The last thing any of those coaches want to do is take a step backwards in their career. If they think that is at risk — whatever the reason may be — they might not be willing to make the leap, particularly for those coaches who are already at successful, p5 programs.

    • Orville says:

      Out of all the comments/opinions I’ve heard on this, I really like this analysis of thought process. We, as fans, don’t always remember that coaches don’t have the luxuries fans have and that its a business decision for them.

      Also, our defense is going to drag us down even with recruiting an OC. This is why I don’t understand the lack of movement here.

  • Paul Lott says:

    I love this blog…Jordan is always at the front of breaking news…and always keeps us up to date

  • leatherneck1061 says:

    Agree entirely with respect to Cumbie. Sounds like a great co and/or qb coach, but not play caller. If Saban is able to recruit USC’s former it-girl as his play caller, there’s no reason a prestigious program like OU should have to be settling for guys who have rarely, if ever, called a CFB play in their lives. Demeaning to the program actually.

  • OU-Texan! says:

    Jordan, you are a reporter (or something like that); criticism is part of the job description. Stand by your $hiz! If we didn’t respect what you bring to the table we wouldn’t all be here waiting each week to see what you have to say! Do the damm thing! As fans who know the game of football, we too expect Bob to bring in the best. It’s the only way we can get back to the top quicker that Texas’ 8 year plan! Boomer

  • ruasoonerfan2 says:

    To me Bob’s choice will be first, best OC to fit what he wants OU football to be. Then who is the best recruiter, and finally who has the character than he wants representing The University of Oklahoma. If anyone can figure this out they will have our next OC.

  • Robert Boone says:

    My guess is that Stoops will make his announcement on Tuesday after the NC game. Frost will be OC and Cumbie will be QB coach. A nice raise and a top program like OU’s is very attractive.

  • JR says:

    Flight from Arlington is set to arrive in Norman at 11:47.

    • JR says:

      Could be either from TCU but also could be Frost as Oregon is in Arlington.

    • Jordan says:

      There are actually two flights from Arlington to Norman…

    • Fear the Magic says:

      hmmm….meachem?

      • soonerthunder says:

        I’ve wondered why we haven’t heard Meachem’s name more. I’d like Meachem and Cumbie a lot. It may be a better pick than Frost, actually. Exactly what we are looking for, and recruit the area, and hurts TCU at the same time.

  • lebval15 says:

    I’d love to have Frost as our OC, even if its only for a year. Because if he comes here and does well there is no way he isnt an HC somewhere else after one year. He was already a finalist for CSU, and a strong candidate for Nebraska after this year. If he came here and did well he’d be an HC at a Power 5 school a year from now.

  • Fear the Magic says:

    Its actually pretty funny when you think that practically everyone here is ubber excited at the prospects of getting a Scott Frost or a Cumbie/ Meachem combo but just imagine for a minute that Brent Venables had never coached at OU and we werent all familiar with him and the rumor was going around that OU was firing Mike and that Venables with his number 1 defense ) was about to replace him and become OUs new DC. We’d all be deliriously happy that that might happen ( including myself ).

    I just find it interesting the mindset of us as fans when it comes to the “New and better” scenario.

    • soonerthunder says:

      I don’t wish Kish or Wright ill-will. I think I could make a little defense for Kish actually, not playing any LBs two years ago put us behind in recruiting LBs, but I want new coaches at LB and CB, especially. I can easily live with MS. He didn’t forget how to coach suddenly.

      • Fear the Magic says:

        I do have a problem with MS. Not only does he seem to have an inability to make mid game adjustments, he also cant seem to make post game adjustments for following games. On top of that he totally loses his cool way too often on the sidelines with players that “screw up”. Id be fine with him going elsewhere.

        • soonerthunder says:

          I’d be fine with him leaving, too, and hope it happens. I never like to get a HC at some big-time program (Power 5) who gets fired and then comes to work as a DC/OC or position coach. I don’t think they put as much into it for some reason as someone on the way up. I think what happened, with most of it being on the defensive side, IMO, if MS goes somewhere else he’ll do fine. It might light a fire under him b/c he realizes not only might he not get another HC but he might not ever get a good DC job for the rest of his career either.

      • Tulsa Terry says:

        Mike Stoops forgot how to coach Arizona and now he remembers? Evidence says otherwise.

  • soonerbred4ever says:

    How many points did all those 5 star defensive players at Alabama hold their opponents to in the last two sugar bowls? If we get an offensive identity with a new OC,and a QB that can run it, the D will look a whole lot better.

    • soonerthunder says:

      No dbout. Big 12 offenses. Not easy to defend. Ask defensive coaches like Synder, Patterson, Stoops, Strong, etc. They aren’t bad defensive coaching minds, they just can’t stop Big 12 offenses. Anyone can and does stop SEC offenses on a regular basis.

    • blaster1371 says:

      Yep. I heard the announcers chime in during Baylor games how much the defense has improved. I think they simply looked at won-loss records. With that said, they have improved but it sure helps to have an offense be able to hang 40 plus points a game on your opponent.

  • OuFulla5 says:

    I think it will be Frost and they’ll tag him as “coach in waiting” kinda like Bowden and Fisher

    • Sooner_Ace says:

      that title would effectively send Monty out the the door eventually

      • OuFulla5 says:

        probably not, he probably doesn’t expect to be considered for ANY head coaching job anytime soon

      • leatherneck1061 says:

        Not to mention it would be foolish considering the guy hasn’t coached a single game here.

        • Sooner_Ace says:

          agreed

        • SCKSChief says:

          I don’t mind it. If he has an understanding that it could be an option. I am not really a fan of propegating the ‘inner circle’ of those who have ‘been with the program’. It doesn’t usually lead to positive outcomes. It worked here for a while, but has since grown stale.

    • blaster1371 says:

      I don’t like seeing the future of a program married to a guy who hasn’t earned his stripes with the team.

  • Sooner_Ace says:

    For the record having to speculate sucks…. that is all

  • Cranbrook says:

    Lots of great offensive coordinators tend get their start at these small schools, and dont’ last long as OCs in general (they become head coaches).

    Auburn hired Malzahn from Tulsa. Oregon hired Chip Kelly from New Hampshire. OSU hired Holgersen from Houston.

  • LXXIV says:

    There is one thing I am confident of, and that is no matter who the new OC will be, as soon as things don’t go quite the way some people think they should go there will be indignant criticism expressed.

  • JB says:

    Jordan, this article does NOT come across as an idiot fan rambling. Every point you make is logical. I’ve been on the Cumbie bandwagon since day 1, because with Meacham only their offense sputtered and Boykin was awful. In one season with Cumbie added to the staff, they became an offensive juggernaut and dead-arm Boykin looked like Charlie Ward.

    But you are right…Bob’s betting his tenure here on this hire. So it probably is unlikely he’ll hire a guy who’s never called plays before. Hopefully we can get him as a QB coach with the honorary co-OC.

  • blaster1371 says:

    I have read here that some call a move by Cumbie a lateral move. Sure the same job title but not the same company. Being CFO of 50 million dollar company is not the same as being a CFO of 100 million dollar company. I know TCU exceeded expectations and look to be as good next year. Most of that, IMO, was due to Boykin playing ten feet over himself. I do not know what resources TCU has or how they treat their football program but OU is already at (resources, facilities, history-wise) where TCU hopes to be. I would also think that working for Bob Stoops has a very positive impact on one’s resume as he is one of the most respected coaches in the profession. Being part of turning around a program could land bigger positions in other big programs down the road. Not to mention, I see Bob being at OU for five more years, seven tops…..who wouldn’t want to be the next HC at OU if the program is experiencing an upswing?

  • Cam says:

    I think OU could get an OC from a P5 school, but I am not of the belief that we need to or necessarily should. Everyone comes from somewhere, and I think it’s a good philosphy to evaluate everyone and leave no rock unturned. I understand we just spent a few years with Heupel who had no experience, but that shouldn’t make us turn down everyone without major P5 experience. I’m a WKU homer, but I honestly think Helton would be an exciting hire.

    In 2013 Brandon Doughty, the WKU QB, had 2,857 yds, 14TD, 14INT with a 65.8% completion rate. Those aren’t great stats, but that’s under Brian Brohm as OC. They also had a RB with 1,730 yds and 16TD. In 2014, under Helton, Doughty improved dramatically. His numbers were: 4,830 yds, 49TD, 10INT wth a 67.9% completion rate. They also managed to have a RB with 1,542 yds and 13TD. That’s an amazing turn around, if you ask me.

    Of course, that’s only one year, but I like his style. He’s going to be at a P5 within the next few years if we or someone else don’t take him this year. We aren’t the only ones that have noticed him, because he was reportedly in the running for the Georgia OC. In the end I will support whoever Bob choose, but I

    • blaster1371 says:

      was that with the same QB?

      • blaster1371 says:

        never mind…. I read your post again..apologies.

      • Cam says:

        Yes, the same QB. And he was a redshirt JR in 2013, so a redshirt SR in 2014. And he will also be back for a medically cleared 6th year in 2015. Also wanted to add that Helton is the QB coach as well.

    • soonerthunder says:

      I would take him, but he wouldn’t get me excited. One year, with a QB who might have improved his second yr under anyone. QBs usually do make their biggest improvement from one yr to the next. Sorry, for me first it’s Frost/Cumbie or Meachem/Cumbie or Riley/Cumbie. I’d take any of those, all equal IMO. Helton and others a step down from those 3 equal combinations, maybe a big one, for me.

      • Cam says:

        I agree, they’re going to improve, but those are some pretty big imrovements especially for someone between their 4th and 5th year at a school. But I think as this point Helton is a non-factor and you might get your Frost/Cumbie combination.

        • soonerthunder says:

          Well, it sounds like Helton is a great OC, and yes that is a great improvement, but w/o knowing who’s the best, from my POV, I’d rather have the other combinations. I’d like more than one yr though and against higher competition, if possible, like Meachem/Frost/Cumbie/Riley even. But if Helton is hired, I bet it’s b/c he was the best available b/c Stoops c/throw the money at people.

  • rphokc says:

    mr esco…….I appreciate all your efforts…………are you familiar with verbose

  • Jeff says:

    I agree 100% no need to hire someone not in the power 5 but go after a big name guy

  • Fear the Magic says:

    I think that its pretty cool that how less than 2 weeks ago ( after the Clemson fiasco ) the OU fanbase was all doom and gloom and in such a short time there’s now so much excitement around here.
    Its pretty amazing what a few quality recruits committing plus the promise of a top notch OC and Monty being promoted to co DC ( plus the hope of more defensive coaching changes ) can do to the mood of the Sooner faithful. I for one went from a deep Sooner depression to feeling really good about our future.

  • kjt89 says:

    Tyson Helton took WKU from 50th or so in total yards/passing yards/scoring to 5th in total yards, second in passing yards (behind Leach at Wazzu), and 6th in scoring. Their QB went from 2800 yards 14TD/14INT to lead all of NCAA in passing with 4830 yards, and 49!! TDs to 10 INTs.

    I don’t know how this guy wouldn’t be a home run hire. Especially paired with another top shelf assistant. I’d rather take this guy who clearly knows how to turn around a program and make passing elite again versus a guy like Scott Frost who we can’t really say for sure is running the offense because Helfrich was the OC/QB coach before being promoted to HC. With Meachem at TCU you can’t really know how much is Meachem and how much is Cumbie. Spatival at A&M had a ton of issues and they’re bringing in a bunch of new coaches to address them.

    Helton is my guy if I’m Stoops.

  • John Garner says:

    Jordan – you’re a know-nothing moron! (I jest of course.)

  • Jeff says:

    Jordan –

    I agree with your commentary, but hear me out, the points you make could easily be the argument for not hiring a Rhett Lashlee? I’ve heard that although he may be Gus’ protege, He really is nothing more than a GA and that Gus call the plays. Thoughts?

  • SoonerFan11 says:

    I would like to see the “Jordan Esco wish list for OC”

    I am gonna say this, if Bob hires a mediocre young OC with little PC experience, I am gonna the administration didn’t fork out the bills needed to land a high profile guy….

  • steve harris says:

    Jordan: This is the “latest” chapter, not the “last” in the Sooner Saga.